My Father's Continuing Saga........

[George S.]

My father called me today out of the Blue. I thought he wanted to know when he was getting his pre. But in fact he was calling me to tell me how AMAZING and INCREDIBLE the white oak Phase Linear 400 sounded. I said “didn’t we test it and you said it was great”? And he said “Yeah but it was xmas and your mother was barking at me to get upstairs so I didn’t really have time to ‘Listen’ to it. The grandkids were runnin around screamin etc”. Well, he was downstairs this week cleaning up and just turned the system on for background sound when he noticed “hey, this bass response sounds incredible! Oh my God”. So it was brought to my attention that he was considering White Oaking the other 8-fin PL400. I won’t pay the bill for this one but I’ll lend my hand in the build again. Which is amazing because in the beginning he wouldn’t even consider doing a conversion whatsoever.

It seems no matter Who you are: one thing holds true. Once you hear a WOPL, you never go anywhere else. His mid and high end on his bi-amped system he says sounds harsh. Well that’s for two reasons. The pre-amp and the original guts of the other PL400. Once we get this second one converted, and the Acurus Pre-amp in....He says that’s all he’ll need. The equipment will outlive him. And 20 yrs is all he’s expecting. No doubt they’ll go for 40.

Hats off to Joe and White Oak Audio. Superior Preformance changing the minds of even the MOST indescisive doubters.

That's so cool. I had my elderly father over to the house couple weekends ago to see my system for the first time. He worked as a electronic tech all his life in avionics, medical equipment, etc, and was always into home stereo. He was just amazed at what two WOPL 400s will do in a biamp system. I played the YouTube subwoofer break-in test tones clip that starts out at 10 Hz, then 20, 30, etc, at a low volume. "I can feel the sound pressure!", then, "those tones are so clear, normally anything below 400 Hz is slightly muddy!".
Yup, a WOPL grabs those woofers by the balls.

 

[mlucitt]

Yup, a WOPL grabs those woofers by the balls.

And, if you turn it up loud enough, a WOPL grabs YOU by the balls. Right, Lee?

 

[George S.]

Your father is going to love a 2 WOPL 400 biamped system. Your a good son.

 

[laatsch55]

And, if you turn it up loud enough, a WOPL grabs YOU by the balls. Right, Lee?

That is correct....

 

[Phase Linear Phanatic]

He called me a second time this week. Once again singing the praises of the WOPL400 on his bottom end. Still in dis-belief. He thought maybe he’s been blaming the wrong component the whole time. The Pre? We discussed swapping the WOPL400 to the high end to see if it clears up his mid-range problem. He hasn’t told me he’s done so yet.

Regardless; I am slated to go out there again tommorow and finally bring him the Acurus RL-11 after it has made it’s SECOND trip back to me again after UPS slammed it apart the first trip. Tore the internal transformer legs clear off the board. One leg left danglin. So I been waiting for near 4 weeks now since I purchased this thing to come back from repair/upgrade. Kevin has been amazing through the whole process.

Talking on the phone, I again was given the nod from my father that he plans to White Oak the other PL400 full-tilt. No thanks to what the first one has done to his low-end. If I hadn’t taken upon myself to build it for him no-cost the first time; none of this ever would have happened. I wish there were a way people could walk into a store these days and just Listen to one. One time is all it takes. They sell themselves.

I await the WHITE OAK AUDIO Brick and Mortar store. Well....it’ll probably be a long wait. BUT there may be some hope for ‘Direct to Consumer’? Source the Xfmrs and the Meters and it’s doable. Then People like him wouldn’t have to throw big money at building one sight unseen and sound unheard? Lets hope for that one day. Till then, I’ve heard all I needed to hear to make MY choice!

Let’s see what the Pre does for his tastes tommorow. More to follow.....

 

[laatsch55]

Kevin is the real deal bud..

 

[Phase Linear Phanatic]

Kevin is the real deal bud..

He absolutley is Lee. I can’t thank him enough.

 

[Phase Linear Phanatic]

So I brought the OPPO BDP-105, and the Acurus RL-11 with me. The mid range problem was tested with multiple solutions.

-The WOPL400 was swapped to the High End. No Change.
-The Rotel was swapped with the the Acurus. Minimal Change.
-The OPPO was ran direct bypassing the pre. No Change.
-The Carver M500t was used on the highs in place of the PL’s. Slight toned down of the mids but also dampened the tweets. Not desired outcome.
-Acurus, OPPO, WOPL all on high end. Minimal Change.

I feel the leaseon learned from this is his source material. He keeps using a Madonna CD, Song “La Isla Bonita” because he says it has bass detail. He uses Boys II Men “This is How We Do It”; and a Big Band tune. I said “What happened to all those other songs you used to crank up? “Magic Carpet Ride”, “Born to be Wild”, “In the Air Tonight”, Steffenwolf, Phill Collins, Journey, Kansas, on and on. The classics? I said Don’t you have OTHER test material here? I mean maybe it’s the SONG? The recording Quality? You have a compilation CD. It’s not a remaster. I dunno? He said “I don’t want to use test material I am not used to hearing”. Well maybe with age his tastes are wavering. Not for the better IMHO but to each his own.

He said when he had the Carver C-1 in there he didn’t have this problem. For NOW; his only solution is to use an equalizer to tone his song down. I said “well what ya gonna do NOW”? His WOPL made a HUGE difference with the bottom end. He said it was absolutly worth it what I did for him there. He said he COULD hear a difference in the Acurus. Just not $850 worth of difference. So he said “I have some thinking to do”.......

I think it’s the Equalizer for life or fixing his C-1. From what I have read on this forum; LOTS of guys are using the Carver C-1 with their Phase Linears. It seems to be a very popular setup. However HIS is broken and doesn’t work. He said if he were to fix it; he’d want something called the BILL D. Mod. Not sure if anyone here knows anyone reputable that can both repair C-1’s AND is familiar with this Mod? But i think that’s the final route he plans to take.

As for the ACURUS; I put it in MY system. It blows away my Rotel. I could crank the volume all the way to the right and not pin needles. With the ACURUS, it took only half volume to get there and I found my PL700B’s clipping for the first time ever. Man oh man is this one great little pre-amp. I am using the SAME mids and tweets as my father and I DO have an eaualizer on my system. This is because I like BRIGHT highs and LOW lows. I dread blaring midrange as my father does so I tune that out.

I will be keeping this for myself. As for my father.....Anyone know a C-1 expert?.....

 

[mlucitt]

The Bill D (RIP), an engineer named Bill Dribble, Mod is well known in Carver circles. It is basically replacing capacitors, resistors, and OPAMPs (167 parts). You can go to the Carver website and do a search for the "BillD Mod" and learn everything you want to know. https://thecarversite.com/
You might as well sign up to be a member if you are interested in keeping the C-1. There are people on this forum that can do the Mod.
OK, here it is:

 

[Gepetto]

Perry does C-1s in his sleep but he is on a road trip...

 

[Phase Linear Phanatic]

The Bill D (RIP), an engineer named Bill Dribble, Mod is well known in Carver circles. It is basically replacing capacitors, resistors, and OPAMPs (167 parts). You can go to the Carver website and do a search for the "BillD Mod" and learn everything you want to know. https://thecarversite.com/
You might as well sign up to be a member if you are interested in keeping the C-1. There are people on this forum that can do the Mod.
OK, here it is:

Thanks Mark. You didn’t have to do that for me. I was already looking into the info you sent above looking at the carver site. Once I have a direction, I can go down the rabbit hole But it’s super-appreciated!!

There’s a recommended repair place over there called Nelion Audio it appears that does the upgrade. Ebay has some kits available for the Bill D. mod. But he needs a repair that may or may not be fixed with that Mod so I’d rather send it to a “Pro” to work on.

I sent them an email for turn-around-time expectations just to see what to expect and I can come back to my father with a price and time. It’ll give him a “choice” on what to do. At least he already has the pre-amp. Getting one is usually half the cost.

 

[Phase Linear Phanatic]

Perry does C-1s in his sleep but he is on a road trip...

I don’t think even if he was available he’d do it. He and I don’t really see eye to eye. So business between us probably wouldn’t be an option. A shame but it is what it is. And I am fine with that. However; I am serious about fixing my fathers problem with minimal headaches to get there on my end. So I want to keep it that way. I’d rather pay the second best repair guy in the world if it means a better end-user relationship in the end. After all; if anything happens later; I have to come back to the original repair guy.

I MUST commend you again on what White Oak has done for me and my father. Its the best amp he has ever heard on his low end. Every time he hears it, he is mesmerized by it’s sound.

 

[laatsch55]

Take some Shpongle next tome....God Particle outta do it...

 

[Phase Linear Phanatic]

The Bill D (RIP), an engineer named Bill Dribble, Mod is well known in Carver circles. It is basically replacing capacitors, resistors, and OPAMPs (167 parts). You can go to the Carver website and do a search for the "BillD Mod" and learn everything you want to know. https://thecarversite.com/
You might as well sign up to be a member if you are interested in keeping the C-1. There are people on this forum that can do the Mod.
OK, here it is:

So here's the very end of the story. (Just when you thought there already was one). We DID do the Carver C-1 Bill D. Mod. and repaired his issue.

I had the repair company do the whole thing. Everything they offered for the C-1. They didn't offer an RCA Gold-Input Jack set at the time. (I see there's a kit now on ebay), but I don't think ripping the old ones out and putting gold jacks in would have made a sonic difference much. Can anyone say they can "hear" a difference for something like that? I provided my father pictures with before and after just because he had absolutely zero idea what was all being done to it. So I tried to point it out. He said "I wouldn't have any idea what I was looking at anyway" so maybe I wasted my time, but I always feel it wise to show what that kind of money got him. He SHOULD know. I talked to Greg; the guy that runs the Carver website and his own. Just a guess but the carver guys pointed to him as the owner of the site in more than one conversation. So I trust he knew what he was doing. Provided photo's below. His pre-outs were fried. And when I opened the case I saw why. The original (if it was) solder work there looked shifty to me, but meh. It was going in for the overhaul anyway so I didn't attempt top do anything myself. I did my best for him to explain what changed. Since this is the internet, I am subjecting my call-outs to criticism if indeed I mis-wrote and that's fine. People here can correct me if I was wrong. I'm not a C-1 expert. But the email exchange was very detailed and informative between Greg and I. I mostly understood the process.

After my father had decided the Acurus wasn't for him and him listening between the Rotel Pre and the Carver C-1, He decided to KEEP the fixed Carver and I SOLD the Rotel for him. So Now he is running the WOPL400 I built for him on his low-end, an Original PL400 (w/White Oak Bulk caps and light board inside) for his highs, and the Carver C-1 Bill D. Mod Pre-amp. He is satisfied with that combo on his Bozak Concert Grands. He gets the C-1 and I ended up with the modded Acurus for my own PL700B system. We are all happy campers!

 

[laatsch55]

What did all that cost Dave??

 

[Phase Linear Phanatic]

What did all that cost Dave??

It looks like it was around $450 even. That's if you DON'T include the shipping to and from. Normal work if you do NOT include the remote volume add and the gundry filter add was about $300-ish. I asked for EVERYTHING. Prices are all on the Nelion site for C-1 upgrades per component work broken down. Link Below. You are also dealing with Greg Caska, the COO of the company and owner of the website. HE is the one that actually did the work himself. Great communication through emails. Nice guy all around. Oh, and I should add it's a 3-year parts and labor warranty on all the work.

Carver C-1/C-11 Restore with Bill D Mod - Carver Preamplifiers - Nelion Audio

 

[laatsch55]

Not a bad deal there Dave..

 

[Phase Linear Phanatic]

Alright. So My Father continues to appreciate his PL400 on his Bi-amped system. So much so he decided to plunge for the other PL400 to get white oaked. I finished the build yesterday. Same as the last build in this thread. Wiring, switches, everything. He was adimat about having it done IDENTICALLY to the one I built last year. Regardless of what changes we have all decided upon on this forum about the meter wiring. The first amp went off without a hitch. Not one bump or goof. Which is odd considering I had never white-oaked an amp EVER. And that had nothing go wrong.

Shoot to today. In THIS build the only things that have changed are the Backplanes which went from Rev C to Rev E, and Joe built the last driver board and I built the backplanes and sourced the DCP direct from Don. THIS go-round, I sourced everything except the bulk caps from Mark. He tested the driver board so no issues there. And provided me the backplanes already assembled. (not wired). And the DCP w/out Zoebel. This way I could drop and play. Again, being for my father; I didn't want to interject any of my personal inexperienced mishaps on board assembly. But this time I am getting some odd meter trickery going on.

Maybe someone can help me troubleshoot? No fuses are blowing, no shorts to the chassis anywhere via any component that I could tell via meter ring-out per instructions, Bias set correctly per procedure, even swapped out the bulk caps for ones that were properly formed from Mark. (My fathers had been sitting for a year). Speakers exhibit a low HUM with no inputs or outputs connected and same when there are. Music itself plays LOUD and perfectly as it should. But along with the hum issue, I have meters that swing wildly upon turn on, and have a 7 second delay after turn off. Meaning 7 seconds later they swing to center and then slowly leak down to zero??

The meters almost behave like I have a bad ground, missing ground or some voltage or current bleed after shutdown? I replaced EVERYTHING including the rectifier with new snubbers. (Same ones I used last time). Maybe someone can chime in on what they think is happening? See link below...........

 

[Phase Linear Phanatic]

One thing I JUST noticed on the relay board is in my previous build, (shown) I left C3 in place. On THIS board, it appears to be missing from the circuit. Any correlation to what's happening?

 

[laatsch55]

Is C3 in the Zoebel trace?