PL 700 Pro Build

[George S.]

After sleeping on this, I do see one potential error. Should the black DCP ground wire be left in the AC bundle or routed across the bottom with the output ground? Hmmm, going to look at some photos of other builds.
Got a Panasonic VP-8193A Signal Generator for Christmas, the good one for doing FM Stereo alignment. Need to clean up my very messy bench and work space and see if it works.

 

[D-500 Flogger]

So found the issues. These old Dell power cords are funky. They came with the XPS 700, 710, or 720 with the 1000 watt power supply. I've got 2 XPS 700s and 2 720s and they all suffered from intermittent restarts. Now I know why. I can slightly move that cords end plug and watch the voltage drop.
Second issue is the Radio Shack True RMS meter. It's junk, gives a totally different result each time I take a reading. I'll keep the leads and new batteries, rest is going in trash
Going to order some new cords, and peruse the bay for another Fluke and a decent Simpson 260 or 270 analog meter.
The 12 VAC is right on the money if I slightly twist the cord end to make good contact.

George S, I'm also girding for battle, and also decided to get a decent Simpson 260 to handle the analog meter duties. They are out there - I must have looked at least a dozen Simpson 260s (new & used) before settling on this one.

NOTE: There were certainly cheaper (used) Simpsons out there, but after giving it a lot of thought/thinking back to the least satisfying troubleshooting sessions over the years...the one thing in common with my own worst 'chase-my-tail' situations involved a piece of test equipment suddenly start lying to me. (Or attempting to troubleshoot on site with someone else's 'unknown-good' meters. :0)

Anyway, all of this seller's listings ( " n5oe ") seemed like he was pretty meticulous - I especially liked the fact that he took a picture of the internals so that I could see that the previous owner hadn't tried to run excessive voltage/current through the meter & toasted the board and/or components.

For what it's worth -- good luck with your hunt, and your project!

 

[laatsch55]

Yeah, a 260 does not like voltage going through the ohms setting..

 

[George S.]

George S, I'm also girding for battle, and also decided to get a decent Simpson 260 to handle the analog meter duties. They are out there - I must have looked at least a dozen Simpson 260s (new & used) before settling on this one.

NOTE: There were certainly cheaper (used) Simpsons out there, but after giving it a lot of thought/thinking back to the least satisfying troubleshooting sessions over the years...the one thing in common with my own worst 'chase-my-tail' situations involved a piece of test equipment suddenly start lying to me. (Or attempting to troubleshoot on site with someone else's 'unknown-good' meters. :0)

Anyway, all of this seller's listings ( " n5oe ") seemed like he was pretty meticulous - I especially liked the fact that he took a picture of the internals so that I could see that the previous owner hadn't tried to run excessive voltage/current through the meter & toasted the board and/or components.

For what it's worth -- good luck with your hunt, and your project!

That's a nice meter!

 

[laatsch55]

George S, I'm also girding for battle, and also decided to get a decent Simpson 260 to handle the analog meter duties. They are out there - I must have looked at least a dozen Simpson 260s (new & used) before settling on this one.

NOTE: There were certainly cheaper (used) Simpsons out there, but after giving it a lot of thought/thinking back to the least satisfying troubleshooting sessions over the years...the one thing in common with my own worst 'chase-my-tail' situations involved a piece of test equipment suddenly start lying to me. (Or attempting to troubleshoot on site with someone else's 'unknown-good' meters. :0)

Anyway, all of this seller's listings ( " n5oe ") seemed like he was pretty meticulous - I especially liked the fact that he took a picture of the internals so that I could see that the previous owner hadn't tried to run excessive voltage/current through the meter & toasted the board and/or components.

For what it's worth -- good luck with your hunt, and your project!

Ahhhh...Series 8...good stuff..

 

[George S.]

So far the Panasonic looks good. This is going to provide me with years of learning how this all works and how to use it.

 

[Gepetto]

It always seems to be something simple

It always is...

As I have told Lee many times, check your test equipment first (one of my rule number ones). It very often is the culprit.

 

[Gepetto]

After sleeping on this, I do see one potential error. Should the black DCP ground wire be left in the AC bundle or routed across the bottom with the output ground? Hmmm, going to look at some photos of other builds.
Got a Panasonic VP-8193A Signal Generator for Christmas, the good one for doing FM Stereo alignment. Need to clean up my very messy bench and work space and see if it works.

You gotta keep em separated...

AC and DC separate.

 

[George S.]

You gotta keep em separated...

AC and DC separate.

Just started reworking it.

 

[laatsch55]

It always is...

As I have told Lee many times, check your test equipment first (one of my rule number ones). It very often is the culprit.

Many, many times...

 

[George S.]

Rewired the 2 AC and ground wires to the DCP. Went with heavier 16 AWG for all 3. The black ground is now a standard grey running along the bottom bundle, the 2 red AC are across the center with the main AC to the transformer.
The AC to the transformer is the red heat shrink run in the second photo. Going to reroute that across the top of the transformer to get it away from the DC bundle.

 

[Gepetto]

Rewired the 2 AC and ground wires to the DCP. Went with heavier 16 AWG for all 3. The black ground is now a standard grey running along the bottom bundle, the 2 red AC are across the center with the main AC to the transformer.
The AC to the transformer is the red heat shrink run in the second photo. Going to reroute that across the top of the transformer to get it away from the DC bundle.

Hi George
The needs of the DC Protect are very minimal, 24 or 22AWG runs are all that are needed to power the board and will dress more nicely. Your 16 will certainly do the job but add unneeded bulk to the wiring. The only heavy runs to the DCP are the speaker out wires and the grounds for the speaker return as you have them. The speaker wires are totally independent of the rest of the circuitry on the DCP, being isolated by the relay construction.

 

[George S.]

Hi George
The needs of the DC Protect are very minimal, 24 or 22AWG runs are all that are needed to power the board and will dress more nicely. Your 16 will certainly do the job but add unneeded bulk to the wiring. The only heavy runs to the DCP are the speaker out wires and the grounds for the speaker return as you have them. The speaker wires are totally independent of the rest of the circuitry on the DCP, being isolated by the relay construction.

Joe, good to know. Going to stick with it as is. Was going to redo with the same finer wire, then found I also had the 16 AWG in correct colors. Think I did the two 400s similar, different DCP design of course!
Now to get that AC supply run across the top of the transformer.

 

[Gepetto]

Joe, good to know. Going to stick with it as is. Was going to redo with the same finer wire, then found I also had the 16 AWG in correct colors. Think I did the two 400s similar, different DCP design of course!
Now to get that AC supply run across the top of the transformer.

All DCPs only need milliamps to run them...400 or 700

 

[D-500 Flogger]

Amen, that's how it usually works. And, taking a week off to think about it also helps. The hours I've wasted trying different ram sticks and drivers on those old computers in the past are huge. Bad cord ends. Think I'll try seeing if I can't bend the contacts out some before tossing them.

George S, years ago I had a similar head-scratcher when I bought a previously-enjoyed HP Blackbird 002. It was an unscarred beauty visually, but it wasn't running as reliably as you would expect from the build quality? Finally, I took a hint when the computer crashed when I brushed against the power cord...on the way to the fridge?

The power cord was heavier than normal, and the connection to the (loose/goofy) wall socket just seemed iffy. I went to the nearest Home Depot & picked up a "commercial grade" 120v/15a outlet, and replaced the sloppy tired original. Voila! I could now hit the power cord all I wanted, and no worries at the computer. Cost of the fix to cure the 'flaky computer'? < $3.

Here's an example of what I upgraded to, available as soon as today. NOTE: 99% of houses are originally built with 'residential/homeowner grade' outlets. Definitely more affordable, especially when you are installing 40-50+ outlets in a typical home. But the physically busier the outlet, the shorter the lifespan. On the other hand, a commercial-grade outlet in the same spot is estimated to last up to 100 years.

FWIW, if you are a 'belt & suspenders' kind of guy, here is the testing that a hospital-grade outlet has to pass to be certified.

Lastly, the guy in this video cuts apart a residential and a commercial outlet, and shows you the physical differences that you are paying for:

What the heck -- if the outlet you are using is loose/tired, then in the interest of troubleshooting why not try a fresh plug & see what happens?

Good luck!

 

[George S.]

George S, years ago I had a similar head-scratcher when I bought a previously-enjoyed HP Blackbird 002. It was an unscarred beauty visually, but it wasn't running as reliably as you would expect from the build quality? Finally, I took a hint when the computer crashed when I brushed against the power cord...on the way to the fridge?

The power cord was heavier than normal, and the connection to the (loose/goofy) wall socket just seemed iffy. I went to the nearest Home Depot & picked up a "commercial grade" 120v/15a outlet, and replaced the sloppy tired original. Voila! I could now hit the power cord all I wanted, and no worries at the computer. Cost of the fix to cure the 'flaky computer'? < $3.

Here's an example of what I upgraded to, available as soon as today. NOTE: 99% of houses are originally built with 'residential/homeowner grade' outlets. Definitely more affordable, especially when you are installing 40-50+ outlets in a typical home. But the physically busier the outlet, the shorter the lifespan. On the other hand, a commercial-grade outlet in the same spot is estimated to last up to 100 years.

FWIW, if you are a 'belt & suspenders' kind of guy, here is the testing that a hospital-grade outlet has to pass to be certified.

Lastly, the guy in this video cuts apart a residential and a commercial outlet, and shows you the physical differences that you are paying for:

What the heck -- if the outlet you are using is loose/tired, then in the interest of troubleshooting why not try a fresh plug & see what happens?

Good luck!

I know what you mean, several of the wall plugs in this house were wore out and continue to wear out over time. I've been replacing them with commercial grade plugs once it's time. Thankfully the house was well wired with 3 conductor Romex and they left adequate pigtails so electrical maintenance is easy. Whole house is wired for 240 VAC base board heat. Only issue I've had was causing the garage GFI breaker failing when using a Lincoln wire welder. I'm thankful I have a good electrical system after some of the shacks I've lived in before!
The problem with that Dell cord is the end plug contacts have no sprung contact to bend out, at least that I can see. Time for some new cords;

 

[laatsch55]

And then there's hospital grade. Use a lot of those in the oilfield..

 

[J!m]

I mentioned elsewhere-

Switches outlets and covers get changed on week one of ownership of a “new” home for me. Many in this home were original from 1939…

 

[D-500 Flogger]

I know what you mean, several of the wall plugs in this house were wore out and continue to wear out over time. I've been replacing them with commercial grade plugs once it's time. Thankfully the house was well wired with 3 conductor Romex and they left adequate pigtails so electrical maintenance is easy. Whole house is wired for 240 VAC base board heat. Only issue I've had was causing the garage GFI breaker failing when using a Lincoln wire welder. I'm thankful I have a good electrical system after some of the shacks I've lived in before!
The problem with that Dell cord is the end plug contacts have no sprung contact to bend out, at least that I can see. Time for some new cords;

Great -- sounds like you are all over this! Looking forward to continued updates as to your progress...I'm in watch-&-learn mode!

Good stuff!

 

[George S.]

My mother's home was built in the 30s and still has many of the original switches and plugs. Unfortunately it also has the old knob and tube wiring, and hardly any extra wire left on the ends to add a pigtail and wire nut. Changing out a switch or plug is challenging. She has several we just decided to not use. Whole house needs rewired to code.