Twin D-500 Restore-a-Thon / Full-Comp WOPL upgrade (+ first a PL 400 S2 WOPLing / Proof of concept / Process debug )
- Thread starter D-500 Flogger
- Start date
I used to use silver bearing solder and learned old fashioned 60-40 (or eutectic) is fine. Rosin core is fine (just clean up), and, oddly enough, is exactly what everyone else was using since fish first grew legs and stared walking.
Aircraft are a different animal, and pretty much always Teflon coated wire that can take the heat of high-silver content solder.
In audio gear, you need to be mindful of the heat input on your components. You’re not soldering to Amphenol connectors; your going straight to components and the big ones already need 80+ watts to get hot enough.
Aircraft are a different animal, and pretty much always Teflon coated wire that can take the heat of high-silver content solder.
In audio gear, you need to be mindful of the heat input on your components. You’re not soldering to Amphenol connectors; your going straight to components and the big ones already need 80+ watts to get hot enough.
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J!m,
You wrote that as if you had worked shoulder-to-shoulder with me on all those old-block ANG F-16s. One of the Air Guard mottos back then that actually stuck in my head was simply, "Ready, Relevant, & Reliable". (And a hard-flown 20+ year old military fighter crammed full of Avionics is rarely accused of that last adjective. :0)
So, when we had a hangar queen who 'needed' 7 or 8 black boxes swapped into one particular spot to clear the same exact writeup in the past year...whereas all the other (good) jets in the squadron maybe only needed 1 box swap in that same spot (plus they were all different writeups) ...then the big picture perspective suggested to me that the problem was something in the plane itself vs. "all those bad boxes" from supply/AIS.
NOTE: As all of The Elders retired around me, I suddenly woke up one day & realized that *I* was now the oldest guy in the shop. And as a reward for my longevity, my job evolved into specializing on problems in our hangar queens that had previously resisted repair. But what I first dreaded turned out to be something I enjoyed, especially because I would always pick one of the newest members in the shop to mentor/work the problem...and we never relented until the problem stopped.
Oftentimes this meant trying the next Most Probable fix on the list, have it pass all the tests possible on the ground, releasing it for flight, and then wait 2x the previous failure interval before declaring victory. Most of the time this went on for days...sometimes it was weeks or even months as we kept repeating the ever-deeper troubleshooting cycle.
Most importantly, when we were tracking a 'profound intermittent' like this, I always wanted the same airman to work it, even if it meant pulling them off of another jet. Because not if, but when we *finally* fixed it, they felt that sense of ownership afterwards...every time that jet flew Code 1 for the offending subsystem. (If it sounds deeply satisfying, it was...still is, actually. And when I retired, the shop didn't even notice, for they had learned everything I knew plus some. (!)
****
Apologies for the above, but I guess that when someone says "Amphenol connectors" it's the same kind of trigger word for me as 'YO' (Yoko Ohno) is for others. :0) But tying this all up in a neat bow? After you've worked on a few problems like this, you discover a magic tool that turns out to be a divining rod for locating aircraft harness intermittents -- and in this case the Daniels Kit had a small assortment of "Pin Retention Tools". So when we had a hangar queen present us with a scenario like the above (multiple LRUs in the same place over a short period of time) we'd check the pin retention on every connector to the black box, and inevitably we'd find one (or several) pins that had literally lost their grip over the years. (Especially if the black box in question had to be routinely removed & replaced in order to FOM (Facilitate Other Maintenance) over the past couple of decades.)
****
So yeah, congrats on ringing my bell first thing on a Saturday morning. :0) Except for those who have actually worked on an aircraft manufacturing line, I bet I've soldered more harness wires to amphenol connectors than most folks. Given all of the above, I grok what you stated...and will comply with your guidance. (You too, Glen & Lee!)
Thanks for stimulating that walk down Memory Flightline...
Cheers --
3D
You wrote that as if you had worked shoulder-to-shoulder with me on all those old-block ANG F-16s. One of the Air Guard mottos back then that actually stuck in my head was simply, "Ready, Relevant, & Reliable". (And a hard-flown 20+ year old military fighter crammed full of Avionics is rarely accused of that last adjective. :0)
So, when we had a hangar queen who 'needed' 7 or 8 black boxes swapped into one particular spot to clear the same exact writeup in the past year...whereas all the other (good) jets in the squadron maybe only needed 1 box swap in that same spot (plus they were all different writeups) ...then the big picture perspective suggested to me that the problem was something in the plane itself vs. "all those bad boxes" from supply/AIS.
NOTE: As all of The Elders retired around me, I suddenly woke up one day & realized that *I* was now the oldest guy in the shop. And as a reward for my longevity, my job evolved into specializing on problems in our hangar queens that had previously resisted repair. But what I first dreaded turned out to be something I enjoyed, especially because I would always pick one of the newest members in the shop to mentor/work the problem...and we never relented until the problem stopped.
Oftentimes this meant trying the next Most Probable fix on the list, have it pass all the tests possible on the ground, releasing it for flight, and then wait 2x the previous failure interval before declaring victory. Most of the time this went on for days...sometimes it was weeks or even months as we kept repeating the ever-deeper troubleshooting cycle.
Most importantly, when we were tracking a 'profound intermittent' like this, I always wanted the same airman to work it, even if it meant pulling them off of another jet. Because not if, but when we *finally* fixed it, they felt that sense of ownership afterwards...every time that jet flew Code 1 for the offending subsystem. (If it sounds deeply satisfying, it was...still is, actually. And when I retired, the shop didn't even notice, for they had learned everything I knew plus some. (!)
****
Apologies for the above, but I guess that when someone says "Amphenol connectors" it's the same kind of trigger word for me as 'YO' (Yoko Ohno) is for others. :0) But tying this all up in a neat bow? After you've worked on a few problems like this, you discover a magic tool that turns out to be a divining rod for locating aircraft harness intermittents -- and in this case the Daniels Kit had a small assortment of "Pin Retention Tools". So when we had a hangar queen present us with a scenario like the above (multiple LRUs in the same place over a short period of time) we'd check the pin retention on every connector to the black box, and inevitably we'd find one (or several) pins that had literally lost their grip over the years. (Especially if the black box in question had to be routinely removed & replaced in order to FOM (Facilitate Other Maintenance) over the past couple of decades.)
****
So yeah, congrats on ringing my bell first thing on a Saturday morning. :0) Except for those who have actually worked on an aircraft manufacturing line, I bet I've soldered more harness wires to amphenol connectors than most folks. Given all of the above, I grok what you stated...and will comply with your guidance. (You too, Glen & Lee!)
Thanks for stimulating that walk down Memory Flightline...
Cheers --
3D
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The company I used to work for uses Amphenols quite heavily. I’ve soldered about half my weight in the things now…
Tricks like starting at the bottom; NOT on pin A, are the gems that make life less miserable.
Newer ones have the pins molded to the insulator, and lose pins don’t happen. But bent pins require full replacement.
The gear I repair was made by my former employer in the early 70’s and are still going (somewhat) strong. Purchasing complains when I need to order ancient NOS parts from eBay, but when I remind them the old one lasted nearly 50 years, they calm down.
Tricks like starting at the bottom; NOT on pin A, are the gems that make life less miserable.
Newer ones have the pins molded to the insulator, and lose pins don’t happen. But bent pins require full replacement.
The gear I repair was made by my former employer in the early 70’s and are still going (somewhat) strong. Purchasing complains when I need to order ancient NOS parts from eBay, but when I remind them the old one lasted nearly 50 years, they calm down.
Yeah, skip the silver solder. I worked in the board/connector repair for many years in the Navy and we used 63/37. No Silver Solder allowed and we worked on AC all the way up to the FA-18's. Fighters, Bombers, Jammers etc..... It was all treated the same. Even the current crop of UAV's didn't use silver solder. Just an unnecessary expense.
I no longer use the Rosin Core due to the intense scrubbing cleaning needed when building complete boards but use it if I just have to do a quick repair.
I no longer use the Rosin Core due to the intense scrubbing cleaning needed when building complete boards but use it if I just have to do a quick repair.
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Ever find yourself wondering what 88 16 amp, 250 watt, 250 volt TO-3 output transistors in close formation looks like?
Thanks to White Oak (Gepetto) I can share the vision with you:
NOTE: Lee, I thought maybe I would organize them like this, but the concept of the less handling the better won out...
Gepetto, the incoming QA check resulted in 44 PNP ('95) + 44 NPN ('96). 100% accuracy. (Insert thumbs-up from Syracuse!)
Signed,
3D (Happy Camper)
Thanks to White Oak (Gepetto) I can share the vision with you:
NOTE: Lee, I thought maybe I would organize them like this, but the concept of the less handling the better won out...
Gepetto, the incoming QA check resulted in 44 PNP ('95) + 44 NPN ('96). 100% accuracy. (Insert thumbs-up from Syracuse!)
Signed,
3D (Happy Camper)
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But there's more than just output transistors when it comes to doing the PL > WOPL transformation:
So I just ordered 3 amplifiers worth of upgrade parts. I spent (what turned out to be) an enjoyable afternoon performing an inventory of the White Oak shipment. Based on this transaction I would describe Gepetto as somewhere between Exacting & Fastidious on the A-Z scale.
Given what I had already read in the Rev 'E' & Rev 'G' release notes (plus his posts in this forum) I was not surprised. But his attention to detail extends to the physical realm...and is genuinely appreciated by yours truly. (!)
I know if it's been said once it's been said a 1000 times, but Gepetto really is the genius behind bringing these amps into the 21st century. These are the nicest kits I've ever purchased, from Heathkit in the '70s, Factory Five at the turn of the century, & Fel-Pro under the hood all the way to the present.
The last thing I purchased that was this nice on arrival was a set of Jesel shaft-mounted rocker arms in order to solve some valvetrain instability issues that we were having with a Ford 302 that we were spinning to Infinity. (And at the time that felt like I was spreading caviar on a hotdog... :0)
If anyone reading this is on the fence vis-a-vis performing a White Oak Audio upgrade to an old audio companion, I would tell them that upgrading is a no-brainer. This is investment-quality stuff.
Wow.
Thank you.
3D
So I just ordered 3 amplifiers worth of upgrade parts. I spent (what turned out to be) an enjoyable afternoon performing an inventory of the White Oak shipment. Based on this transaction I would describe Gepetto as somewhere between Exacting & Fastidious on the A-Z scale.
Given what I had already read in the Rev 'E' & Rev 'G' release notes (plus his posts in this forum) I was not surprised. But his attention to detail extends to the physical realm...and is genuinely appreciated by yours truly. (!)
I know if it's been said once it's been said a 1000 times, but Gepetto really is the genius behind bringing these amps into the 21st century. These are the nicest kits I've ever purchased, from Heathkit in the '70s, Factory Five at the turn of the century, & Fel-Pro under the hood all the way to the present.
The last thing I purchased that was this nice on arrival was a set of Jesel shaft-mounted rocker arms in order to solve some valvetrain instability issues that we were having with a Ford 302 that we were spinning to Infinity. (And at the time that felt like I was spreading caviar on a hotdog... :0)
If anyone reading this is on the fence vis-a-vis performing a White Oak Audio upgrade to an old audio companion, I would tell them that upgrading is a no-brainer. This is investment-quality stuff.
Wow.
Thank you.
3D
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3D,
Welcome to the WOPL assembly adventure. The quality and straightforward design of the boards and overall design will continue to impress you. My personal experience with Joe's kits has been sheer joy, you will have many more of those "Wow: moments as you assemble the kits.......leading up to my favorite, kicking back and listening to the completed amplifier. I have had Phase Linear components since 1978, and they always sounded fantastic. The WOPL's version is honestly in a class by itself. You will truly enjoy the assembly, testing, and the final project. Joe has thought the entire design out, tested and proven the design..........truly.........."always making it better".
Enjoy your journey with WOPL, it sets the standard!
Welcome to the WOPL assembly adventure. The quality and straightforward design of the boards and overall design will continue to impress you. My personal experience with Joe's kits has been sheer joy, you will have many more of those "Wow: moments as you assemble the kits.......leading up to my favorite, kicking back and listening to the completed amplifier. I have had Phase Linear components since 1978, and they always sounded fantastic. The WOPL's version is honestly in a class by itself. You will truly enjoy the assembly, testing, and the final project. Joe has thought the entire design out, tested and proven the design..........truly.........."always making it better".
Enjoy your journey with WOPL, it sets the standard!
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If you are recently joining the vintage audio restoration hobby, and trying to figure out where to go to purchase quality wire, look up NavLinear and send him a PM.
And if you are a long time member & wondering if NavLinear is still selling his wire kits? After talking to Grapplesaw, I decided to stock up the electronics lab I'm putting together so that I'll have whatever I need whenever I need it -- and this is what I just received from NavLinear:
Super high quality wire. Could not be happier with the quality -- far higher than what is available locally. And the full-color kits (by AWG size) are priced right. (!)
Nice dealing with you. Thanks Nav!
3D
And if you are a long time member & wondering if NavLinear is still selling his wire kits? After talking to Grapplesaw, I decided to stock up the electronics lab I'm putting together so that I'll have whatever I need whenever I need it -- and this is what I just received from NavLinear:
Super high quality wire. Could not be happier with the quality -- far higher than what is available locally. And the full-color kits (by AWG size) are priced right. (!)
Nice dealing with you. Thanks Nav!
3D
Last edited:
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I tried to figure out when they went to the newer meters like yours but I sobered up and forgot about it. Now I know it was between 1948 and 1980
Great job with the reso/facelift.
Great job with the reso/facelift.
I was able to nail it down a little closer, but not exact.
Here's the latest I found the old school meters:
('61 Catalog)
And here's the earliest that I found the space age (rectangular) meter look:
('73 Catalog)
Note: It was hard to find much of any official Variac documentation from the late '60s? (Back then, did all the technical writers hop into a VW microbus, drive out to San Francisco, and hang out with Jefferson Airplane at Haight-Ashbury?)
So, instead of '48-'80, we now know that it happened at some point between the photos above. The cool thing? 50+ years from now both your Variac & mine should still be 100% ready for troubleshooting duty. I've worked with some Brits, and they would opine that Variac made some really solid kit.
FWIW --
3D
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Glen,
Looking at your photo, I believe that the number "7726" = a July '77 date code for the transformer. This would be in agreement with the '73 photo in the Variac catalog showing the 'space age' update vs the original cool-looking post-WWII meters in Perry's Variac:
( YYWW Variac date format)
Q: On 2nd glance, is this opened up autotransformer the same unit as the metered Variac you just posted? The internals look a bit different than mine. If this is your backup autotransformer, then when you get a chance go ahead & take the back off of your metered Variac and snag a photo of that date code...and then we'll know for sure.
...anyway, these things are all definitely Industrial Strength stuff. I just hope that whoever gets mine after I'm gone appreciates it as much as I do. :0)
Looking at your photo, I believe that the number "7726" = a July '77 date code for the transformer. This would be in agreement with the '73 photo in the Variac catalog showing the 'space age' update vs the original cool-looking post-WWII meters in Perry's Variac:
( YYWW Variac date format)
Q: On 2nd glance, is this opened up autotransformer the same unit as the metered Variac you just posted? The internals look a bit different than mine. If this is your backup autotransformer, then when you get a chance go ahead & take the back off of your metered Variac and snag a photo of that date code...and then we'll know for sure.
...anyway, these things are all definitely Industrial Strength stuff. I just hope that whoever gets mine after I'm gone appreciates it as much as I do. :0)
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Yeah, we had that document listed in the Variac thread.
https://forums.phxaudiotape.com/threads/variacs-n-stuff.9022/#post-244175
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More priming of the lab pump - this arrived Saturday!
Best price/least weirdness was purchasing straight from American Hakko on Amazon. (?)
NOTE: When buying something new online, I'll always cross-check the bay vs Amazon vs a couple of representative tool outlets. Lately it seems that prices on Amazon are inflated, especially if supplies are short, possibly due to catering to the 'price don't care, I want it now' crowd? In other words, if I can wait a week or so, there's a non-sketchy seller on the bay with the good price.
...But not this time. For this particular item, the prices were all over the place, and most of the good prices looked to be sellers exporting from Japan? (My concern is 'gray-market' item warranty issues?) On the other hand, anybody shipping from the states was looking for a non-trivial premium for what they had in stock?
Finally, after burrowing deep in the ebay multiple-choice/no obvious right answer rabbit-hole, I finally gave up. The next day I cross-checked on Amazon, and the folks at American Hakko had exactly what I needed, 14% discount, and Prime shipping. And if there's a problem I will get more than someone pointing out that it's a gray-market item & a shrug of the shoulders...
****
In a previous life I did OK with the pencil iron & soldering wick, but after watching some impressive online demos by end users (plus the sheer quantity of used audio + test gear piling up) ...I decided to invest. And what pushed me over the edge was some of the highest ratings I've seen for an electronics tool:
We'll see how it goes. I know that George S. mentioned a Hakko desoldering tool, but I think it's an older pro unit? Normally I buy used in order to maximize the bang/buck ratio, but all I could seem to find in today's used desoldering tool marketplace was both spendy and in need of a rebuild?
Watch this space to see how the desoldering crash test dummy does with this newfangled handheld unit...
:0)
3D
Best price/least weirdness was purchasing straight from American Hakko on Amazon. (?)
NOTE: When buying something new online, I'll always cross-check the bay vs Amazon vs a couple of representative tool outlets. Lately it seems that prices on Amazon are inflated, especially if supplies are short, possibly due to catering to the 'price don't care, I want it now' crowd? In other words, if I can wait a week or so, there's a non-sketchy seller on the bay with the good price.
...But not this time. For this particular item, the prices were all over the place, and most of the good prices looked to be sellers exporting from Japan? (My concern is 'gray-market' item warranty issues?) On the other hand, anybody shipping from the states was looking for a non-trivial premium for what they had in stock?
Finally, after burrowing deep in the ebay multiple-choice/no obvious right answer rabbit-hole, I finally gave up. The next day I cross-checked on Amazon, and the folks at American Hakko had exactly what I needed, 14% discount, and Prime shipping. And if there's a problem I will get more than someone pointing out that it's a gray-market item & a shrug of the shoulders...
****
In a previous life I did OK with the pencil iron & soldering wick, but after watching some impressive online demos by end users (plus the sheer quantity of used audio + test gear piling up) ...I decided to invest. And what pushed me over the edge was some of the highest ratings I've seen for an electronics tool:
We'll see how it goes. I know that George S. mentioned a Hakko desoldering tool, but I think it's an older pro unit? Normally I buy used in order to maximize the bang/buck ratio, but all I could seem to find in today's used desoldering tool marketplace was both spendy and in need of a rebuild?
Watch this space to see how the desoldering crash test dummy does with this newfangled handheld unit...
:0)
3D
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Let me speak from experience with Hakko 470 desoldering stations. Make sure it's properly calibrated. For pcb through hole work I use 700 deg F. max and no more. This is the lowest setting on my units. Get up to 750 F and the trace may loose adhesion to the board.
The genuine Hakko tip thermometers are very expensive, but the photo shows a cheap clone that uses genuine Hakko sensors. I think it works excellent.
Also, if you work on more modern boards with lead free solder, these units do not work well. The trick is to melt leaded solder into the joint first, then heat and vacuum. Sometimes leaded solder needs applied twice. And, sometimes, just sacrifice the component by cutting the leads and then extracting them.
But overall, with proper technique, they are great quality tools. Any time my iron is turned on, so is the desoldering gun.
And I do still keep wick at hand. But, most components just drop right out. And, no damage to those old fragile vintage traces on the board.
The genuine Hakko tip thermometers are very expensive, but the photo shows a cheap clone that uses genuine Hakko sensors. I think it works excellent.
Also, if you work on more modern boards with lead free solder, these units do not work well. The trick is to melt leaded solder into the joint first, then heat and vacuum. Sometimes leaded solder needs applied twice. And, sometimes, just sacrifice the component by cutting the leads and then extracting them.
But overall, with proper technique, they are great quality tools. Any time my iron is turned on, so is the desoldering gun.
And I do still keep wick at hand. But, most components just drop right out. And, no damage to those old fragile vintage traces on the board.
