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Przem's Phase Linear 700 Series II White Oak Conversion
- Thread starter laatsch55
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... it's all about headroom ....
[...]
When I was a kid, I was asked to help some people from our church help clean out an elderly lady's attic. While I was working, I came across a stack of old Stereo Review magazines (Some were actually called Hi Fi and Stereo Review, the magazine's original name.) I was given the magazines (they were going to be thrown out anyway.) I spent hours at home devouring not only the reviews, but the ads as well. One that I have never forgotten was an ad for the then brand new Phase Linear 700 power amp, which put out a whopping 350 watts per channel.
The ad copy, supposedly written by Bob Carver, its designer and company President, explained why everyone needed that much power. No, it wasn't to really piss off your neighbors with incredibly high SPL's, although it could do that. It's all about headroom, or the ability to cleanly reproduce musical transients. As an example, Dr. Carver cited reproducing the sound of a pair of scissors cutting a piece of paper at the same volume it would be in real life. As expected, the overall amount of power required was miniscule, however it required hundreds of watts to cleanly reproduce the peaks that the recording had. And that was with scissors and paper. Can you imagine music? It made sense to me, and I obviously never forgot it. Never mind the fact that the 700 sounded dreadful, and with low impedance it was quite unreliable. Phase Linear didn't get nickname "Flame Linear" for nothing.
All things being equal (and they seldom are) I prefer high power amps. I like having the ability to play loudly if I choose to, but like the ad said, it's all about headroom. Just as one wouldn't buy a car that only does 70mph, even though that's as fast as one can drive legally in most states, I want more amplifier power than I really need. I want my amps to loaf along, not even breaking a sweat. Remember, also, that clipping (overdriving the amp) kills speakers, not "too much" clean power.
Keep in mind that the differences in power can be deceiving. A two hundred watt amp does not play "twice as loud" (whatever that is) than a one hundred watt amp. It will play 3dB louder, which is noticeable. To get "twice as loud", one must go to 1000 watts. Again, it's not how loudly can it go, its how much power is in reserve for musical peaks. Most people actually listen, most of the time, at one watt (continuous) or less.
I have found that well designed tube amps tend to give more usable headroom than solid-state designs. The rough rule of thumb is that a two hundred watt tube amp is comparable to a four hundred watt solid-state design. Some believe that tubes do put out more power than comparable solid-state designs. I think the differences are in the distortion that is generated by the two different types of amps. Solid-state amps tend to clip abruptly, producing odd order harmonics, which is easily identifiable as harshness. Tube designs, on the other hand, clip gently, generating mostly even order harmonics, which are much less noticeable and objectionable.
[...]
source: by Nels Ferré of tnt-audio.com
[...]
When I was a kid, I was asked to help some people from our church help clean out an elderly lady's attic. While I was working, I came across a stack of old Stereo Review magazines (Some were actually called Hi Fi and Stereo Review, the magazine's original name.) I was given the magazines (they were going to be thrown out anyway.) I spent hours at home devouring not only the reviews, but the ads as well. One that I have never forgotten was an ad for the then brand new Phase Linear 700 power amp, which put out a whopping 350 watts per channel.
The ad copy, supposedly written by Bob Carver, its designer and company President, explained why everyone needed that much power. No, it wasn't to really piss off your neighbors with incredibly high SPL's, although it could do that. It's all about headroom, or the ability to cleanly reproduce musical transients. As an example, Dr. Carver cited reproducing the sound of a pair of scissors cutting a piece of paper at the same volume it would be in real life. As expected, the overall amount of power required was miniscule, however it required hundreds of watts to cleanly reproduce the peaks that the recording had. And that was with scissors and paper. Can you imagine music? It made sense to me, and I obviously never forgot it. Never mind the fact that the 700 sounded dreadful, and with low impedance it was quite unreliable. Phase Linear didn't get nickname "Flame Linear" for nothing.
All things being equal (and they seldom are) I prefer high power amps. I like having the ability to play loudly if I choose to, but like the ad said, it's all about headroom. Just as one wouldn't buy a car that only does 70mph, even though that's as fast as one can drive legally in most states, I want more amplifier power than I really need. I want my amps to loaf along, not even breaking a sweat. Remember, also, that clipping (overdriving the amp) kills speakers, not "too much" clean power.
Keep in mind that the differences in power can be deceiving. A two hundred watt amp does not play "twice as loud" (whatever that is) than a one hundred watt amp. It will play 3dB louder, which is noticeable. To get "twice as loud", one must go to 1000 watts. Again, it's not how loudly can it go, its how much power is in reserve for musical peaks. Most people actually listen, most of the time, at one watt (continuous) or less.
I have found that well designed tube amps tend to give more usable headroom than solid-state designs. The rough rule of thumb is that a two hundred watt tube amp is comparable to a four hundred watt solid-state design. Some believe that tubes do put out more power than comparable solid-state designs. I think the differences are in the distortion that is generated by the two different types of amps. Solid-state amps tend to clip abruptly, producing odd order harmonics, which is easily identifiable as harshness. Tube designs, on the other hand, clip gently, generating mostly even order harmonics, which are much less noticeable and objectionable.
[...]
source: by Nels Ferré of tnt-audio.com
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I have heard a lot of guitar guys say tube wattage is louder then SS wattage. To me, watts are watts. It's how amps are rated today that is a joke. I remember a certain SS amp I had as a young adult that was insanely loud. A Sunn Beta Lead 2x12 combo that could give a all tube Marshall Major a serious run for SPL's and still sound good. The deal is you don't have drums, bass and a vocalist adding to the mix through the same amp so of course a guitar amp sounds way louder then a stereo amp. Stereo amps have to replicate everything, not just one instrument
I agree totally with the headroom. I could be sitting here listening to something at above conversation level and yet the meters redline on some dynamic parts. That's headroom, having the power to be able to replicate a passage without clipping. WOPL's have this down pat better then any other amp I have owned and still sound pleasing. My old Mark Levinson 333 was a great amp but it sounded fatiguing after a bit of listening. Of course I never wanted to admit that... after all it was a Levinson
I agree totally with the headroom. I could be sitting here listening to something at above conversation level and yet the meters redline on some dynamic parts. That's headroom, having the power to be able to replicate a passage without clipping. WOPL's have this down pat better then any other amp I have owned and still sound pleasing. My old Mark Levinson 333 was a great amp but it sounded fatiguing after a bit of listening. Of course I never wanted to admit that... after all it was a Levinson
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I have had McIntosh hybrid and a Fisher SA1000, neither sounded as good as my WOPL. I also noticed that tube amps can sound different depending on room temperature. Don't get me wrong, nothing wrong with tube amps at all, I have just moved on to what I feel sounds best to me. For a guitar amp, it has to be tube though. I have a Peavey all tube USA made 6505 2 x 12 that roars when I need it to. I just did a complete retube on it and it sounds better then when I first got it. Bastard weighs almost 100lbs so I put casters on it LMAO!!!
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You'll need to get a photo of Steve in goat mode.
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The Christmas card and CD have arrived 
Thank you Lee, Jer and all the Phoenix Friends!!!
Cheers!
-> http://youtu.be/UUbJN1XKw_w
Thank you Lee, Jer and all the Phoenix Friends!!!
Cheers!
-> http://youtu.be/UUbJN1XKw_w
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Lee,
I know that this is an old thread. (Just doing my research/homework prior to diving in.)
But I was looking at your wiring. ! - Nice - !
This kind of work is definitely along the lines of the performance/price Avionics + aircraft wiring harnesses I spent so much time around.
And this is what I'll be striving for on my own stuff. And, yes, it's all about the QUIET...
(Insert tip of the hat here.)
I know that this is an old thread. (Just doing my research/homework prior to diving in.)
But I was looking at your wiring. ! - Nice - !
This kind of work is definitely along the lines of the performance/price Avionics + aircraft wiring harnesses I spent so much time around.
And this is what I'll be striving for on my own stuff. And, yes, it's all about the QUIET...
(Insert tip of the hat here.)
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PL700II sound after White Oak conversion
I've promised Lee to share my personal experience with this new WOPL 1000. And here it is.
The gears used for the testing were as follows:
Sources: Meridian 500 CD transport + Meridian 566 20-bit DAC, Dual CS 460 v.4 (Dual NOS platter and the original rubber mat) with Ultra Linear Power Supply Unit
Preamplifiers: Carver C-4000 (just fully recapped and cleaned) - as the main preamp; Graham Slee Project ERA GOLD V + PSU1 - as phono stage
Processors: Phase Linear 1200 II RTA, Phase Linear 1100 II Parametric Equalizer (however bypassed for most tests)
Power amplifier: WOPL 1000 built by Lee
...
Loudspeakers: JBL Ti 5000 with crossovers professional upgrade by Acoustic LAB and HF extension with Bohlender Graebener Neo3-PDRW Planar Tweeters
Signal wires: all RCA type by DNM Reson Single Solid Core
Speaker wires - bi-wiring: LF with Monster Cable Z2 Reference and MF/HF with DNM Reson Speaker Dual Solid Core cables
Power supply:
PS AUDIO Duet Power Center connected with house power box through dedicated shielded OFC 6N wires, where:
- zone 1 powers the WOPL Amp
- zone 2 powers all other sources, processors and preamps + PS AUDIO noise harvester x2.
Power cables used: PS AUDIO, ENERR and FURUTECH.
Remark - above may look as over-investment, however my house is located in a small village where local energy supply network adds surcharges definitely too often. And on top, in about 2km distance, there is one of Warsaw airport marker beacons giving strong HF interference to PS and RCA signal cables. That is why the whole route of 240VAC from underground connecting point at the house electric power distribution box to my audio system goes end to end through high class shielded wires.
I’ve planned to do some sound testing earlier but it was not easy - my kids caught a bad cold and staying home and there was always something more important to do... This weekend however I found some free time.
I picked a few high quality CD's and one vinyl LP and started listening session. These were my favorite choice:
At first I played the two pure testing disks, from Chesky Records and Carver C4000 calibration CD. The first one is a truthteller about your system overall setup. It starts with the 'Music' part - here I picked three / four jazzy tracks. Then after all listening and technical tests, with percussion imaging, depth of image of acoustic clicker, dynamic drum test, bass resonance test, speakers height test on the list, I’ve run for general image and resolution checkup (track 47). This one is a must have sound experience. Tells you about your sound system imaging capability only within 1min 31sec... If someone tells you that two stereo speakers will never give you a perfect 3D illusion, where you head stays right in the center of zillion sounds flowing around you, just run track 47. No Carver sonic hologram feature active of course.
From Carver CD I run all the tests. The tones recorded are useful to check frequency response on both Phase Linear 1200 II RTA and with your own ears. I had a problem to hear 15kHz single test and wondered if I'm getting that old... But it was caused by poor quality of the Carver Calibration CD bought on ebay. I actually heard up to about 18kHz when applying modulated signals throughout the hearable frequency spectrum. Imaging tests may be skipped from that disc if the setup was already correct, so one could jump to track 13 directly to listed to spacial recordings. The sonic hologram on some CD's works very convincing, sometimes doesn’t - depending on the amount of processing done in recording studios. Older LP’s sound is becoming really spacial when this function is active. Your choice to play with it or not....
So after more technical sound checkup my house became the audiophile’s listening room with no limits for one night. The outcome? Well I could write a lot about new emotions that Lee’s job of converting my old PL700 Series II into next century gear gave me. But I’m not good in telling stories in audiophile slang. To me this upgrade gave simply lots of sounds which I didn’t hear before! I enjoyed very detailed yet powerful sound experience with clearly wider soundstage than before, fast dynamics’ changes and much extended low end. I found WOPL 1000 as almost a volcano of dynamics without a sacrifice of all the colors and sound effects that give you listening pleasure and joy. Regardless whether I took jazz, rock or metal music this amplifier handled the program extremely well and engaging to me as the listener. When I was listening to Time of Pink Floyd, the sound clarity, its bass base and headroom sent cold chills down my spine and backward… Listening to live recording of Metallica with San Francisco Symphony Orchestra, when the Carver C4000 preamp volume pot faced 12 o’clock, was like a suicider’s jump to the middle of audience area during that concert with shaking your body low end… And after Whole Lotta Love - OMG! - I had tears in my eyes. The sound of Page guitar riff was sharp as a knife, one should watch out of not being cut and get bleeding… Later on I found the percussion of Phil Collins in In The Air Tonight as tight, totally controlled and earth-quaking… Yeah, it was SOMETHING… Then I changed the mood towards jazz. Not too much saying - there were just 3 CD tracks that I’ve listened to: The Ruby And The Pearl of Bandford Marsalis and Ballad for Frederick as well as I'll Close My Eyes from Art of Ballad, Best of Mapleshade. What more can I say? These are important for me tracks and sonically quite demanding too. The SS WOPL played this time mellow-like with amazing clarity, convincing instruments imaging and again with lots of headroom… It was reconfirmed also while listening to the Jim Hall’s LP Concierto - truly classy sound feast!!!
Lee, thank you Buddy for all these and next good emotions!
I've promised Lee to share my personal experience with this new WOPL 1000. And here it is.
The gears used for the testing were as follows:
Sources: Meridian 500 CD transport + Meridian 566 20-bit DAC, Dual CS 460 v.4 (Dual NOS platter and the original rubber mat) with Ultra Linear Power Supply Unit
Preamplifiers: Carver C-4000 (just fully recapped and cleaned) - as the main preamp; Graham Slee Project ERA GOLD V + PSU1 - as phono stage
Processors: Phase Linear 1200 II RTA, Phase Linear 1100 II Parametric Equalizer (however bypassed for most tests)
Power amplifier: WOPL 1000 built by Lee
...Loudspeakers: JBL Ti 5000 with crossovers professional upgrade by Acoustic LAB and HF extension with Bohlender Graebener Neo3-PDRW Planar Tweeters
Signal wires: all RCA type by DNM Reson Single Solid Core
Speaker wires - bi-wiring: LF with Monster Cable Z2 Reference and MF/HF with DNM Reson Speaker Dual Solid Core cables
Power supply:
PS AUDIO Duet Power Center connected with house power box through dedicated shielded OFC 6N wires, where:
- zone 1 powers the WOPL Amp
- zone 2 powers all other sources, processors and preamps + PS AUDIO noise harvester x2.
Power cables used: PS AUDIO, ENERR and FURUTECH.
Remark - above may look as over-investment, however my house is located in a small village where local energy supply network adds surcharges definitely too often. And on top, in about 2km distance, there is one of Warsaw airport marker beacons giving strong HF interference to PS and RCA signal cables. That is why the whole route of 240VAC from underground connecting point at the house electric power distribution box to my audio system goes end to end through high class shielded wires.
I’ve planned to do some sound testing earlier but it was not easy - my kids caught a bad cold and staying home and there was always something more important to do... This weekend however I found some free time.
I picked a few high quality CD's and one vinyl LP and started listening session. These were my favorite choice:
- Best Of Chesky Classics & Jazz & Audiophile Test Disc, Vol. 2
- Carver C4000 calibration CD
- Eternal, Branford Marsalis, CD (track 1: The Ruby And The Pearl)
- Art of Ballad, Best of Mapleshade, HD recorded CD (track 1: Ballad for Frederick; track 9: I'll Close My Eyes)
- Houses Of The Holy, Led Zeppelin, SHM CD Japanese pressing (track 7: No Quarter)
- Brothers in Arms, Dire Straits, XRCD2 Japanese pressing (track 2: Money For Nothing, track 6: Ride Across The River)
- Led Zeppelin II, SHM CD Japanese pressing (track 1: Whole Lotta Love, track 2: What Is And What Should Never Be)
- 90125, Yes, SHM CD Japanese pressing (track 1: Owner Of A Lonely Heart (track 4: Changes, track 6: Leave It)
- Amused to Death, Roger Waters, Mastersound Gold CD SBM (track 10: What God Wants Part III, track 11: Watching TV)
- The Dark Side of the Moon, Pink Floyd, 20th Anniversary remastering CD (all tracks with focus on Time and Money intro)
- Wish You Were Here, Pink Floyd, 20th Anniversary remastering CD (all tracks with focus on Welcome to the Machine)
- S&M, Metallica and San Francisco Symphony Orchestra, SHM CD Japanese pressing (track 1: The Ecstasy Of Gold - Live With The SFSO, track 2: The Call Of Ktulu - Live With The SFSO)
- Face Value, Phil Collins, Audio Fidelity 24K Gold CD (track 1: In The Air Tonight, track 5: Droned)
- Concierto, Jim Hall, Vinyl (track 4: Concierto De Aranjuez)
At first I played the two pure testing disks, from Chesky Records and Carver C4000 calibration CD. The first one is a truthteller about your system overall setup. It starts with the 'Music' part - here I picked three / four jazzy tracks. Then after all listening and technical tests, with percussion imaging, depth of image of acoustic clicker, dynamic drum test, bass resonance test, speakers height test on the list, I’ve run for general image and resolution checkup (track 47). This one is a must have sound experience. Tells you about your sound system imaging capability only within 1min 31sec... If someone tells you that two stereo speakers will never give you a perfect 3D illusion, where you head stays right in the center of zillion sounds flowing around you, just run track 47. No Carver sonic hologram feature active of course.
From Carver CD I run all the tests. The tones recorded are useful to check frequency response on both Phase Linear 1200 II RTA and with your own ears. I had a problem to hear 15kHz single test and wondered if I'm getting that old... But it was caused by poor quality of the Carver Calibration CD bought on ebay. I actually heard up to about 18kHz when applying modulated signals throughout the hearable frequency spectrum. Imaging tests may be skipped from that disc if the setup was already correct, so one could jump to track 13 directly to listed to spacial recordings. The sonic hologram on some CD's works very convincing, sometimes doesn’t - depending on the amount of processing done in recording studios. Older LP’s sound is becoming really spacial when this function is active. Your choice to play with it or not....
So after more technical sound checkup my house became the audiophile’s listening room with no limits for one night. The outcome? Well I could write a lot about new emotions that Lee’s job of converting my old PL700 Series II into next century gear gave me. But I’m not good in telling stories in audiophile slang. To me this upgrade gave simply lots of sounds which I didn’t hear before! I enjoyed very detailed yet powerful sound experience with clearly wider soundstage than before, fast dynamics’ changes and much extended low end. I found WOPL 1000 as almost a volcano of dynamics without a sacrifice of all the colors and sound effects that give you listening pleasure and joy. Regardless whether I took jazz, rock or metal music this amplifier handled the program extremely well and engaging to me as the listener. When I was listening to Time of Pink Floyd, the sound clarity, its bass base and headroom sent cold chills down my spine and backward… Listening to live recording of Metallica with San Francisco Symphony Orchestra, when the Carver C4000 preamp volume pot faced 12 o’clock, was like a suicider’s jump to the middle of audience area during that concert with shaking your body low end… And after Whole Lotta Love - OMG! - I had tears in my eyes. The sound of Page guitar riff was sharp as a knife, one should watch out of not being cut and get bleeding… Later on I found the percussion of Phil Collins in In The Air Tonight as tight, totally controlled and earth-quaking… Yeah, it was SOMETHING… Then I changed the mood towards jazz. Not too much saying - there were just 3 CD tracks that I’ve listened to: The Ruby And The Pearl of Bandford Marsalis and Ballad for Frederick as well as I'll Close My Eyes from Art of Ballad, Best of Mapleshade. What more can I say? These are important for me tracks and sonically quite demanding too. The SS WOPL played this time mellow-like with amazing clarity, convincing instruments imaging and again with lots of headroom… It was reconfirmed also while listening to the Jim Hall’s LP Concierto - truly classy sound feast!!!
Lee, thank you Buddy for all these and next good emotions!
I know that this is an old thread, but your review is exactly what I needed to see before digging into my own pile of vintage Phase Linear equipment. And it's obvious to me that you enjoy/experience your music at the same level that I do -- a really good listening session is how I prefer to get to the same place that others resort to 'recreational pharmaceuticals' if you will. :0)
Nice writeup, listing the music, followed by your reactions. I think I'll do the same once I arrive at that same spot in the project.
Thanks for sharing -- still relevant, even after years have passed.
Cheers --
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Hey, I like that -- 3D it is! :0)
You know, after a full career of doing my best to meet someone else's timeline (ie: Gotta meet The Mission / Gotta get the customer back online, etc) ...every once in a great while I've occasionally been able to stop & do something for myself at the speed of enjoyment while chasing the quality thing. (See attached photo -- while busy spending my cohort's money on their go-faster projects I had actually gotton off on a cylinder head porting tangent - in order to attack the VE {Volumetric Efficiency} bottleneck in most older mass-produced engines -- actually spent some quality time on a old-school Superflow 600 a few years back. At the time it really seemed that the more I learned, the less I knew. Just like always. :0)
...But I digress. Point is, I always try to follow the old adage "Your work is your Signature - Autograph your work with Excellence!"
But I find that if I think that the item under the knife might eventually show up on the interwebs, I actually try just a little harder to make it look as good as it runs.
Best of all, when you are working in an environment like this forum -- like you said, when I see someone else setting a new benchmark in quality in some area...especially since now that I can see that it *is* possible in the real world to do it to this new level of demonstrated excellence, then like you, it just makes me want to up my game in order to achieve the same thing.
****
All in all, the more I poke around in here, the more I feel like Dorothy when she got the red slippers...
There's no place like home.
Cheers -
You know, after a full career of doing my best to meet someone else's timeline (ie: Gotta meet The Mission / Gotta get the customer back online, etc) ...every once in a great while I've occasionally been able to stop & do something for myself at the speed of enjoyment while chasing the quality thing. (See attached photo -- while busy spending my cohort's money on their go-faster projects I had actually gotton off on a cylinder head porting tangent - in order to attack the VE {Volumetric Efficiency} bottleneck in most older mass-produced engines -- actually spent some quality time on a old-school Superflow 600 a few years back. At the time it really seemed that the more I learned, the less I knew. Just like always. :0)
...But I digress. Point is, I always try to follow the old adage "Your work is your Signature - Autograph your work with Excellence!"
But I find that if I think that the item under the knife might eventually show up on the interwebs, I actually try just a little harder to make it look as good as it runs.
Best of all, when you are working in an environment like this forum -- like you said, when I see someone else setting a new benchmark in quality in some area...especially since now that I can see that it *is* possible in the real world to do it to this new level of demonstrated excellence, then like you, it just makes me want to up my game in order to achieve the same thing.
****
All in all, the more I poke around in here, the more I feel like Dorothy when she got the red slippers...
There's no place like home.
Cheers -
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