phase linear 400

gene french

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guayabo de bagaces, guanacaste, costa rica....
a room full of music...
doesnt have the bass the 15s in my woofers have..
absolutely xtal clear...
wopl 400 on woofers up to 500 hz
8 fin 400 on mods 500 hz to 4500 hz
200 on tweeters
4 fin full range on voigts...40 to 20k hz
sounds extremely strong...
amps are barely warm...
200 never turns on a lite on the led meter...
hitting almost 110 db with preamps at 12 oclock..
you can absolutely feel the music...
i will know more later...still have the plate to install...and padding behind driver...and of course painting...
thanks!!!!
 

George S.

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a room full of music...
doesnt have the bass the 15s in my woofers have..
absolutely xtal clear...
wopl 400 on woofers up to 500 hz
8 fin 400 on mods 500 hz to 4500 hz
200 on tweeters
4 fin full range on voigts...40 to 20k hz
sounds extremely strong...
amps are barely warm...
200 never turns on a lite on the led meter...
hitting almost 110 db with preamps at 12 oclock..
you can absolutely feel the music...
i will know more later...still have the plate to install...and padding behind driver...and of course painting...
thanks!!!!
Good job!
 

J!m

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Fluke 87 is pretty much bomb-proof. They are on the fifth gen now- true RMS scale too.

I bought mine open box via eBay and it’s been great. Just remember to disconnect it from the plasma gun when you hit the ignition button, or it might fry…

I also got a fluke AC/DC amp clamp used. Most are AC only but this does both. Useful to monitor amps on the running gun.

Then I got a Fluke case to keep it all in.
 

gene french

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guayabo de bagaces, guanacaste, costa rica....
Fluke 87 is pretty much bomb-proof. They are on the fifth gen now- true RMS scale too.

I bought mine open box via eBay and it’s been great. Just remember to disconnect it from the plasma gun when you hit the ignition button, or it might fry…

I also got a fluke AC/DC amp clamp used. Most are AC only but this does both. Useful to monitor amps on the running gun.

Then I got a Fluke case to keep it all in.
duly noted....will give it a go too....
muchas gracias...
dios ti bendiga!!!!
 

George S.

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Gene, I purchased another Fluke 8050A bench meter today. I want 2 so I can easily do "comparative" testing in stereo gear without getting confused and making errors. These are True RMS and appear to be very good quality and holding up well despite their age. If a bench meter would suit you, perhaps consider pursuing one of these or something newer. I have less than $100 in both and the replacement electrolytics.
Two versions of the 8050A were made. One with NiCad batteries, and one without. The NiCad version has a battery charge indicator LED just to the left of the power switch, easily seen on eBay photos. Manuals and videos on the web. I do have Mouser part#s for the electrolytics for the non NiCad version of anyone wants them.
 

gene french

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Gene, I purchased another Fluke 8050A bench meter today. I want 2 so I can easily do "comparative" testing in stereo gear without getting confused and making errors. These are True RMS and appear to be very good quality and holding up well despite their age. If a bench meter would suit you, perhaps consider pursuing one of these or something newer. I have less than $100 in both and the replacement electrolytics.
Two versions of the 8050A were made. One with NiCad batteries, and one without. The NiCad version has a battery charge indicator LED just to the left of the power switch, easily seen on eBay photos. Manuals and videos on the web. I do have Mouser part#s for the electrolytics for the non NiCad version of anyone wants them.
noted...added to the wish list!!
 

NeverSatisfied

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Hey Gene, I have a couple questions.
Are you running both systems together at the same time?
If I have been keeping up, your original speakers are a three way and the new Voigts is a full range?
You have are now quad amped with DSP for all drivers, correct?
If so have you run the Voigts with just the 15’s ?
I would think that running a full range with a three way at the same time would do horrible things to the sound stage and stereo image?
 

George S.

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I remember Joe once stating to line up all the voice coils in the same vertical plane. With the DSP, he should be able to add delay to get them into "Phase" if that's the proper terminology. Linear phase, Phase linear. No doubt there's a lot more to it when dealing with multiple speakers, especially when one set are pipes. Be nice if Gene had more media sources to experiment with.
I remember that REW would measure phase distortion using frequency sweeps. But how to fix them I never learned.
 

gene french

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Hey Gene, I have a couple questions.
Are you running both systems together at the same time?
If I have been keeping up, your original speakers are a three way and the new Voigts is a full range?
You have are now quad amped with DSP for all drivers, correct?
If so have you run the Voigts with just the 15’s ?
I would think that running a full range with a three way at the same time would do horrible things to the sound stage and stereo image?
ok....thanks for reading....and thanks for writing!!!
glad you are interested....
i have a 408 dayton audio dsp....4 x 8 which is basically 2 stereo inputs and 4 stereo outputs...
on input one and two i have a schiit dac and preamp...which drives the first six outputs (3 stereo outs)
output one and two goes to the wopl 400 which is driving the woofers....a 15" dayton built with subbox 6 software....5.7 cubic feet was optimum....resonate at 24 hz...the dsp on this 2 channels goes from 20 to 500 hz....
output 3 and 4 goes to the 8 fin 400 which is set thru the dsp at 500 to 4500 hz...is fed by input one and two of the dsp
output 5 and 6 goes to the pl 200 .....from 4500 to 20k....fed by input one and two of the dsp....
output 7 and 8 is connected to the 4 fin 400 and drives the full range voigt....the drivers are rated at 40 to 20k....they are nice drivers....paid 300 for two...they are driven from another schiit dac and preamp into input three and four on the dsp....
i can control the volume of each set of speakers with the seperate preamps...if i want to run the woofers as subs on the voigts i just turn off the mid and tweeter amps....voila...voights with sub....
i got the dayton calibrated mike at about 3 meters and used audio tool to chart the above graphs....was playing a selection by santana....at a moderate volume....in the neighborhood of 100 db....you can see the results....nothing really scientific about it...just reflects whats there to hear......
you can see the voigts are a tad down on the deep bass...but not by much...i was surprised...when you pour the coal to them...they liven up...
the full range drivers are a bit livelier than the soft dome tweeters....or so it seems to my ears....
i need to pad behind the drivers according to the plans...as of now they drivers are only held in by two screws...when i paint...i will dampen...
a nice very low sub....maybe 10 to 60 hz would sound fantastic with the voigts if you are a rocker....and love the power bass....
the bt module with the dsp was bad....so i cant experiment more with the dsp without taking it to the computer room....
i have it set flat....only using the active crossovers...and mixer....
with the amp switches and the two preamps i can play around a bit....
both sound really good....individually....with the 3 way stronger on the bass softer on the mids and the voigts stronger in the mids and tweeters...
but played together, the best way i can describe it is....the room seems to fill up with music....it sound fuller....more robust....powerful....
i have not messed with the delays to compensate for the vertical planes...but, i have them within a few inches...the dsp can be set in inches or metric distances as well as mseconds....that dsp is a lot smarter than i am....
the big noticable difference was an increase of clarity when multiamping....that shocked me....how much difference it was to lose the xovers...
each amp runs cooler....with the woofer amp getting a bit above warm....the mid amp is a bit below warm....and you cant tell the 200 is turned on...it is so cool....the 200 has 5 leds for meters on each channel....if i push it hard...the first light will flicker on and off...never lit up more than that...
according to my math and what i have read, only about 15 watts 20 tops makes it to the tweeters....the meters on the wopl really goes to town....the mids are maybe 2/3 of the movement of the woofers....and again the one light under stress on the 200
i am no expert as you all have figured out by now....but multiamp with active crossovers sure is clean effecient music....
your mileage may vary....
thanks george for blazing the trail for me!!!!

ok joe....there is the short answer....from the man of few words...
lololol
 

gene french

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guayabo de bagaces, guanacaste, costa rica....
I remember Joe once stating to line up all the voice coils in the same vertical plane. With the DSP, he should be able to add delay to get them into "Phase" if that's the proper terminology. Linear phase, Phase linear. No doubt there's a lot more to it when dealing with multiple speakers, especially when one set are pipes. Be nice if Gene had more media sources to experiment with.
I remember that REW would measure phase distortion using frequency sweeps. But how to fix them I never learned.
i would love to have more inputs to experiment with....i do have and aftermarket cd player here....but, nothing to write home about....
please feel free to send any media sources you want tested....lololol
when the bt module is here...i can experiment with the timing...but i am within 2 or 3 inches of a vertical plane...and the dsp does have a reverse polarity switch on each output ....i dont think i need that....i will graft with a 20 to 20k sweep when i am done...to get a response graph....through excel...
dont know if that will mean anything....i do wish i had another set of ears here....and other opinions....with suggestions...and observations...
 

gene french

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one more observation....i used to set the volume of the preamps at two oclock...
now, i set it at strait up 12 noon ....
i wish i could hear other systems that i would have better reference material....
it may sound great...or it may sound crappy compared to others...
i guess i will never know unless a phoenix visitor decides to vacation in costa rica...
lolololol
 

Gepetto

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ok....thanks for reading....and thanks for writing!!!
glad you are interested....
i have a 408 dayton audio dsp....4 x 8 which is basically 2 stereo inputs and 4 stereo outputs...
on input one and two i have a schiit dac and preamp...which drives the first six outputs (3 stereo outs)
output one and two goes to the wopl 400 which is driving the woofers....a 15" dayton built with subbox 6 software....5.7 cubic feet was optimum....resonate at 24 hz...the dsp on this 2 channels goes from 20 to 500 hz....
output 3 and 4 goes to the 8 fin 400 which is set thru the dsp at 500 to 4500 hz...is fed by input one and two of the dsp
output 5 and 6 goes to the pl 200 .....from 4500 to 20k....fed by input one and two of the dsp....
output 7 and 8 is connected to the 4 fin 400 and drives the full range voigt....the drivers are rated at 40 to 20k....they are nice drivers....paid 300 for two...they are driven from another schiit dac and preamp into input three and four on the dsp....
i can control the volume of each set of speakers with the seperate preamps...if i want to run the woofers as subs on the voigts i just turn off the mid and tweeter amps....voila...voights with sub....
i got the dayton calibrated mike at about 3 meters and used audio tool to chart the above graphs....was playing a selection by santana....at a moderate volume....in the neighborhood of 100 db....you can see the results....nothing really scientific about it...just reflects whats there to hear......
you can see the voigts are a tad down on the deep bass...but not by much...i was surprised...when you pour the coal to them...they liven up...
the full range drivers are a bit livelier than the soft dome tweeters....or so it seems to my ears....
i need to pad behind the drivers according to the plans...as of now they drivers are only held in by two screws...when i paint...i will dampen...
a nice very low sub....maybe 10 to 60 hz would sound fantastic with the voigts if you are a rocker....and love the power bass....
the bt module with the dsp was bad....so i cant experiment more with the dsp without taking it to the computer room....
i have it set flat....only using the active crossovers...and mixer....
with the amp switches and the two preamps i can play around a bit....
both sound really good....individually....with the 3 way stronger on the bass softer on the mids and the voigts stronger in the mids and tweeters...
but played together, the best way i can describe it is....the room seems to fill up with music....it sound fuller....more robust....powerful....
i have not messed with the delays to compensate for the vertical planes...but, i have them within a few inches...the dsp can be set in inches or metric distances as well as mseconds....that dsp is a lot smarter than i am....
the big noticable difference was an increase of clarity when multiamping....that shocked me....how much difference it was to lose the xovers...
each amp runs cooler....with the woofer amp getting a bit above warm....the mid amp is a bit below warm....and you cant tell the 200 is turned on...it is so cool....the 200 has 5 leds for meters on each channel....if i push it hard...the first light will flicker on and off...never lit up more than that...
according to my math and what i have read, only about 15 watts 20 tops makes it to the tweeters....the meters on the wopl really goes to town....the mids are maybe 2/3 of the movement of the woofers....and again the one light under stress on the 200
i am no expert as you all have figured out by now....but multiamp with active crossovers sure is clean effecient music....
your mileage may vary....
thanks george for blazing the trail for me!!!!

ok joe....there is the short answer....from the man of few words...
lololol
The man of few words came down with a case of verbal diarrhea today
 

gene french

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Location
guayabo de bagaces, guanacaste, costa rica....
noted...added to the wish list!!
i wrote to fluke about the part that is broken....the lady sent me a part number that was not the correct part...
i told her about that....she sent an exploded view of the meter....and my bad part was not on there...
i sent a pic of the part and where it went and the id tag....to which she responded that my inquiry was transferred to another department....
i think george i want one that can do diodes, caps, etc....i did not see that function on the desk fluke...
i am still looking....
 

George S.

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Suggest a DER EE DE-5000 LCR meter for caps. What model of 77 do you have?
The 8050A does diode checks. Actually has 3 separate ranges for "turning on" silicon junctions.
Huge operators manual.
 
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