Monster Amp Meltdown

J!m

J!m

Veteran and General Yakker
#41
Joined
Dec 24, 2019
Messages
10,705
Location
Connecticut
Tagline
BOT
#41
For what it's worth: there are muffin fans that run quieter AND move more air than their grandparents did.

I have an upgrade fan (quieter and more volume) for my Alesis HD24 recorder I'll probably never get installed... It was a suggested upgrade for anyone using these recorders as they run HOT.
 
Skratch

Skratch

Chief Journeyman
#43
Joined
Dec 27, 2011
Messages
1,163
Location
Huntley Il.
Tagline
Life is short, so take your time
#43
Gepetto said:
Beware on those NOS capacitors from a Chinese supplier. Nippon Chemicon is the most common knock off out there. They have the branded shrink wrap and will give you anything you want...
Click to expand...
100% correct, do not buy, they are not what they say usually
 
Peter S

Peter S

Journeyman
#44
Joined
Jun 29, 2019
Messages
312
Location
Ontario Canada
#44
That's funny Glen! But I have to confess that the clip lights have flashed on a few occasions. Pink Loyd on the 150" screen can get me carried away.

Hi Jim, I bought the quietest fans I could find in that size about 7 years ago OK, further confession; I slowed the new fans a little more with some series resistors. The fan speed is governed by the amp but I would like to come up with a simple circuit to bypass my series resistors when temp increases...or ideally, modify the the fan control circuit in the amp. Crest's "slow" speed was not slow enough.
 

Attachments

mlucitt

mlucitt

Veteran and General Yakker
#49
Joined
Jun 24, 2011
Messages
3,469
Location
Jacksonville, FL
#49
Peter S said:
Hi Jim, I bought the quietest fans I could find in that size about 7 years ago OK, further confession; I slowed the new fans a little more with some series resistors. The fan speed is governed by the amp but I would like to come up with a simple circuit to bypass my series resistors when temp increases...or ideally, modify the the fan control circuit in the amp. Crest's "slow" speed was not slow enough.
Click to expand...
If you have two fans you can wire them in series so that each fan sees about 60VAC. This is enough to spin them at half speed, which is very quiet, but they still move enough air to keep things cool. You can bypass the fan speed control on the amp and let them run al the time.
 
Peter S

Peter S

Journeyman
#50
Joined
Jun 29, 2019
Messages
312
Location
Ontario Canada
#50
Hi Jim, they are 24 Volt fans but the series trick would still work. I have just discovered this morning that this amp does not have any temp sensing (see pics in entry #47 above). Maybe installing a sensor would solve the problem...No info yet on what sensor was called for.
 
J!m

J!m

Veteran and General Yakker
#51
Joined
Dec 24, 2019
Messages
10,705
Location
Connecticut
Tagline
BOT
#51
Probably a simple thermistor that closes at a set temp.

I’m sure digi key etc has a billion to choose from. (Note temps are often in C)
 
Peter S

Peter S

Journeyman
#52
Joined
Jun 29, 2019
Messages
312
Location
Ontario Canada
#52
Getting in over my head---again. I have been using a Peavey GPS 3500 (about 600 WPC / 8 ohms) and it sounds great. Bass sounds deeper. I have discovered that the Crest has a non-switchable sub-sonic filter....This just won't do. I will have to reconnect the Crest with all the pieces out of the chassis, on a table so I can access things without having to wrestle everything in and out of the box.
I will measure the bottom end roll-off but I wonder if there is some way to modify the pre amp board to eliminate the high pass filter?
 

Attachments

Peter S

Peter S

Journeyman
#53
Joined
Jun 29, 2019
Messages
312
Location
Ontario Canada
#53
So back to the fan issue. I have discovered the location of the temp sensors. The blank terminals must be for use with a different model. The LM35D temp sensor spec claims + 10 mV per 1 degree C. The sensor circuit seems to be working (to some degree, bad pun). Holding a soldering iron about half an inch away from the sensor caused the voltage at the fan to increase from 11 V (cold start) to 13 V after approx 1 minute.

The sensor signal is connected to IC 2 on the pre amp board. The output of IC 2A is then sent to the fan driver board (page 2). I have extended some connectors to the amp module can be accessed for testing while powered up.

Is there a simple way to mod the fan driver to have more 'gain' or variation of fan voltage for a given change in sensor voltage?
 

Attachments

Peter S

Peter S

Journeyman
#54
Joined
Jun 29, 2019
Messages
312
Location
Ontario Canada
#54
What about removing / moving / changing the value of R 10 and R 12 on the fan driver board (page 2) The connection of Q 3 and Q 4 to the regulators via R 11 and R 16 (voltage divider) seems to reduce the effect of temperature change unless I misunderstand
 
Peter S

Peter S

Journeyman
#56
Joined
Jun 29, 2019
Messages
312
Location
Ontario Canada
#56
An update on the Crest catastrophe; The caps from China came in and of course they measure 15,000 ufd instead of 18,000. I could live with that but they are 130 mm tall and the ad claimed they were 118 mm. I was warned.....
At the moment, the amp seems to run quietly with four 9,500 ufd caps in place of the old 18,000's. My solution will be to buy 15,000 ufd units from Mouser.
The fan speed issue seems to be resolved by shunted the 1 k ohm R 11 and R 13 on page 2 with another 1 K ohm. The fan voltage at room temp is now just over 9 V at quite tolerable.
 

Attachments

Peter S

Peter S

Journeyman
#57
Joined
Jun 29, 2019
Messages
312
Location
Ontario Canada
#57
The next dilemma is a built in high pass filter in the Crest. I have noticed a distinct improvement in the extreme low frequency response of a temporary replacement amp, a Peavey GPS3500. I measured the Crest CA-18 and the Peavey GPS3500 just to make sure I was not imagining things. I bought a function generator for this purpose---any excuse to buy more Leader test gear! Both amps were measured into an 8 ohm dummy load and the P to P voltage was measured on a scope (DC coupling)
The Peavey was flat down to 5 Hz. I would like to remove the high pass filter from the Crest but I am truly in over my head.
 

Attachments

Peter S

Peter S

Journeyman
#58
Joined
Jun 29, 2019
Messages
312
Location
Ontario Canada
#58
On page 4 of the schematic, there is a SERVO/HIGH PASS section but I am unclear as to which cap (or resistor?) could be changed to remove or at least reduce the effect of the high pass filter.
Thanks again for all your help.
 

Attachments

Peter S

Peter S

Journeyman
#59
Joined
Jun 29, 2019
Messages
312
Location
Ontario Canada
#59
With a little help from my friends, I was pointed to C8 on page 4. It is a 2.2 ufd film cap. I bypassed it with a 20 ufd film cap (sledge hammer approach). The response rose at 5 hz...this is probably dangerous! I will try 10 ufd.

Could I use a good quality electrolytic rather than a film cap? space is a factor for 10 ufd @ 63 V.

Here the monster breathing at 5 Hz
 

Attachments

Peter S

Peter S

Journeyman
#60
Joined
Jun 29, 2019
Messages
312
Location
Ontario Canada
#60
Slowly coming together!
I have spent way too much time on this project! So many modifications to this amp. Initially I dipped the transformer 20 times in electrical vanish to stop the buzzing noise. Fans were replaced with quieter models. I abandoned the idea of making it passively cooled, instead modifying the fan control circuits for a lower voltage at room temp. The high pass filter was modified to be about 3 db down at 3 Hz instead of 15 Hz. This was an excuse to buy my latest toy, a Leader Function generator.
One final modification, I have to cut a hole in the top cover to accommodate the taller caps. After months of searching, it was impossible to find caps that fit. Strange, new caps are usually smaller.
I really don't like the idea of cutting the cover, but it's not like this amp will ever be a vintage piece.
PS; J!m mentioned cutting holes in the top of the amp, I thought he was joking...
 

Attachments

You must log in or register to reply here.
Top