Garrard Type A II

[Pure_Brew]

I'm on the look out for a single play spindle. I have one, but I swear I saw one that actually turns with the record. The changer spindle is fixed, so the record center has to move around it, causing friction. The single play spindle can turn, but only if it has to, and that's within the shaft so there is some friction there too.

i swear I saw one of them, like a cap with a bullet sticking out. That'd be perfect, then everything would just turn together, like most turntable do.

 

[orange]

I can't relate to the hooker thing, haven't needed one.

I can't even get to Chaska for a proper price quote myself. No mule.




No wait. That's the last thing you want to take to see a...

 

[Pure_Brew]

So I took the motor apart today. I never cleaned out the bearings as Joe had mentioned way back so I thought I should.

I had an extra motor, so I took it apart first to see what was going on. It wasn't too bad, unbolt two screws from the bearing plate cover and the rotor comes right out. (Need to pull the idler and speed pulley off prior to doing this)

I ended up using sewing machine oil, which is very light and clear. I used it based on the old manufacturers recommendation, as well as other recommendations across the net. I was using 3in1 in other areas. Seems not the best choice, but I could clean it out some other time. (Center spindle)

Anyway, it wasn't dried out completely, but it did look like it needed some cleaning and fresh oil.

It was a little fussy putting the plate back on, as the single ball bearing wanted to fall out. You either have to have the motor out or work from underneath to put it back together again. I did neither, but wound up balancing it on my lap, slightly tilted back so I didn't drop the bearing.

This seemed to quiet it down. Sorta glad I did it but......

Now when I engage play, Something shifts pretty hard, jarring the whole turntable. I think I either loosened up the aging motor mounts, or there is a lot more start up torque ( likely both ).

Im poking around for motor mounts now. Got a few leads but nothing specific to this model yet.

 

[Pure_Brew]

Yup, the mounts need to be taken care of. Looked underneath with a flashlight when I was engaging. You can see the whole assembly shift hard. I thought these we kinda decrepit before, but now with all the extra torque, I see I have a real problem.

I kept the mounts from the parts table because they looked decent. Might mess with them later.

 

[Pure_Brew]

I'm looking for some input on this....

Well, after taking down the motor, cleaning and lubricting, swapping motor mounts and trying new washers, I see I have a problem and I am stumped.

theres a rattle coming from something and where from I'm not 100% sure. I noticed when I reach under and push the motor up a hair, or let my finger touch the outer rim of the platter the vibration stops.

i even went as far as taking it all apart again, wondered if the was enough lube in the motor. Put it all back together. Same thing.

I thought since I could raise the motor ever so slightly and make it stop, I shimmed one of the motor mounts and re-aligned the brass speed pulley to the idler.

that worked for awhile, and while I played it, it sounded fantastic. Then the problem returned. The rattle was back.

this time it was a bigger problem, as I had slipping with no platter movement on some speeds (78rpm).

Ive made sure everything was oil free on the driving surfaces, but maybe my little shim underneath shifted.
****************************

i don't know wtf I did to get to this point. Maybe the sludge cleaning loosened things up a bit. If I try to fix one thing another problem shows here. Like early on I could get it quiet but had a audible hum coming and going with the rotation of the platter.

everything is suspect, but the idler is still grabbing wicked hard. I also noticed that contact edge of the idler is not true as it spins. I can see it moving slightly up and down its edge as it rotates against the speed pulley.

Maybe the new idler is not good after all?

i don't know. Maybe I'll toss the old one back on.

One thing from the start with this idler, not sure I mentioned, is that I can not reverse speed in play. There is horrid rubbing. Oh shit, wonder if I bent the shaft.... ?!?
Arg?

 

[Fairchild]

Can you provide a picture of the motor mounts?

Those old idlers are a lot like the old BSR's, I have several parts around here somewhere if I can find them. Are the mounts the mushroom type?

I am another vote for the FP-10, it is a very fine lubricant, I use it exclusively. It works very well on the spindle bearings as well as the motor berings, it gets into places and cleans and lubricates.

I fixed up an old Zero for my Son, dispite what you might here it is a pretty nice table, i set it up strickly for single play.

http://usalubrications.com/mpc-fp10.html

http://autorefrigerants.com/co00023.htm

Jim

 

[Pure_Brew]

Can you provide a picture of the motor mounts?

Those old idlers are a lot like the old BSR's, I have several parts around here somewhere if I can find them. Are the mounts the mushroom type?

I am another vote for the FP-10, it is a very fine lubricant, I use it exclusively. It works very well on the spindle bearings as well as the motor berings, it gets into places and cleans and lubricates.

I fixed up an old Zero for my Son, dispite what you might here it is a pretty nice table, i set it up strickly for single play.

http://usalubrications.com/mpc-fp10.html

http://autorefrigerants.com/co00023.htm

Jim

The mount looks just like this one pictured on the right: http://www.thevoiceofmusic.com/catalog/phono_motor_mounts.asp

Looks like I could even just get new ones from them. A possibility.

That oil seems good. I wonder how much better it is over singer sewing machine oil. If I buy new oil I'll try that. Although I don't know what the benefit of replacing the oil I have now would be. Maybe a thicker oil would be better on old parts

Cool that you like the Zero. I don't have enough experience to say anything is bad without knowing about it. That's the one that has the head-shell that changes tangentially as it plays, to make it more like a linear tracker-right?

More on the idler (which I say is bad at this point), just gonna copy paste my post from the vinyl engine because I'm lazy and tired:

"Thank you for the replies. While there is no need to change speed during play, or care if I can, the point was only to say that there is marked difference, and I don't know if it is a sign of anything that should be, or shouldn't be.

To be clear, when I just turn it on from dead stop, it jars very hard. That's with or without engaging changer functions.

Actually, it jars hard enough to jerk away from my finger when I'm trying to turn it on, which also causes a temporary failure to engage the switch completely, thus stopping the TT. Seems a bit extreme.

Thinking further on the function of the idler, there is recommended clearance as it touches the brass speed pulley in the different positions. The clearance is smaller then before, making the speed pulley tricky to line up because it is super close to the next speed (maybe the reason for the non-issue-issue above).

Ok, so let's just say I live with it as is, as long as it plays well, changes well, which was a thought I had in the beginning...

BUT...there was this rattle that developed. A small quick constant annoying sound which i didn't have before. This started happening right after I took the motor down and thoroughly cleaned and lubricated the motor shaft and bearings.

First I though it was the idler so I tried tightening it up a bit temporarily with some new washers. No difference.

Then I put my hand on the motor while it was running from underneath. Just a gentle, slight push upward and the noise stopped. I could get the same effect tipping the table a bit, or even letting my finger gently rub on the side of the platter.

So taking the platters back off to see what was going on (no rattle at that point), I may have figured out what the problem is:

When I look at the idler as it spins, the circumference looks good. However from the edge as it spins against the pulley, it is not true. It has a bit of a wobble. So I would say that when it's back under a torque condition, it may be causing the motor shaft to rise and fall very quickly, striking the main bearing below.

Whew

I think I may have answered my own question. Bad pulley."

 

[speakerman1]

I have a sheet of sorbothane. Can you make it out of that. The mounts.

 

[Fairchild]

The mounts I have are the ones on the left.

The oil you are using should be fine, the FP-10 does a superior job at cleaning gunk and making a temperature resistant lubricant.

Looking at the picture of the idler, I assume you are refering to the brass speed shaft as the pulley. I would not suspect it as much as the alignment on the shaft it is attached to, there could also be a bearing/bushing that the shaft goes into that is worn. A bushing might be easier to repair if needed. Seeing the set screw on the pulley though I would check that alignment first.

You might even try lowering it on the shaft to allow for more clearance, is ther play between the shaft and the pulley?

Jim

 

[Pure_Brew]

Might be chasing the tail on this problem, as it relates to the idler.

How about SPARK SUPPRESSOR.

***The problem started after I worked on the motor/bearings. It wasn't doing these things prior(the hard jerking at startup, strange "rattle" sound")

***And after I finished the motor job, there were some tiny black Bakelite-looking pieces on the table... And this is exactly when the problems started.

Couple guys chimed in over at The Vinyl Engine and thought that what I was describing was from a problem with the spark suppressor.

I think the "rattle" I was trying to figure out might be an electrical short, and I remember thinking it sounded a little like that.

 

[Pure_Brew]

Who here knows a bit about electric motors? See below.

Well... I could have a different problem, still not 100% sure yet. But it defineatly is electrical.

It may or may not be the spark suppressor. Everything I read everywhere implies that it keeps the motor from running when you shut it off. I don't know what else.

Physically the suppressor looks fine, but I am starting suspect that it is the motor itself, or something close to it.

It may be possible that the little bake-lite looking pieces I found was actually some old wire insulation, and now there is some kind of short (the electrical noise stops when I unplug the AC)

Now I don't know why this would cause the motor to slam so hard when I engage play, but it is becoming clear that something happened after I cleaned the motor bearings.

 

[Pure_Brew]

Turns out I was just being stupid.

when I lubed up the motor, it takes longer to spin down. So if i turn it off, then on too quickly, the motor will still be up speed and grab that idler really hard. And being that its fresh rubber, the whole thing is exaggerated .

That's why the folks at the engine thought the suppressor was bad, because if the motor never stops running, it'll slam hard when you re-engage. Same thing.

So if you wait to flip the record, or change records, there is plenty of time for it to spin down. But not if you are arbitrarily flipping the power switch back and forth lol.

so yeah it's not slamming around now, but the replacement motor mounts was worth putting on as it quieted the rumble a lot.

still not sure about the "rattle". I swapped out a much cleaner bearing plate, no change.
however, i touched the washers on the bottom of the flip side motor mount and it seemed to go away...

I suppose it's possible that the washer, which kinda hangs there, was rattling against the brass part of the motor mount. Its there for security only, as the brass is really just being suspended in the rubber it snaps into.

ran it a lot today and it hasn't come back.

so I guess it's all good for now.

 

[HarvestmanMan]

I gave my sister an AII as part of a mini-stereo system for her apartment.

It had an Empire 880P on it. Replaced the stylus (with the 880P, you have to slide it diagonally through the front of the cart!) and it was good to go. It takes a few seconds to get warmed up to full speed, and the idler wheel is noisy (so much so that it was audible when I used a preamp to transfer vinyl to the computer via Audacity), but other than that, it sounds pretty good.

Imagine my shock when she asked for a stereo for her 21st birthday...She says she falls asleep listening to music.

I never did figure out how to get the changer itself working...hell, I don't even know if it's complete.

 

[Pure_Brew]

Cool! Looks complete to me, might be missing a 45 changer/adaptor. I stuck mine in the closet for now. The idlers are always a challenge.

 

[Pure_Brew]

Finally got an original plinth for this. It's kinda purdy. Found a different source for the M3D needles. $12 free ship. Running this with the Bellari, Jolida and the 901's makes me feel like I should put on a smoking jacket and pack a pipe.

 

[laatsch55]

Good to see ya Joe!!

 

[Gepetto]

Finally got an original plinth for this. It's kinda purdy. Found a different source for the M3D needles. $12 free ship. Running this with the Bellari, Jolida and the 901's makes me feel like I should put on a smoking jacket and pack a pipe.

Very pretty turntable Joe. Very retro looking in a good way.

 

[Pure_Brew]

Good to see ya Joe!!

Thanks man. Same to you!

 

[Pure_Brew]

Very pretty turntable Joe. Very retro looking in a good way.

Thanks Joe. I think I've been subconsciously reconstructing my dad's cabinet stereo from the 60's

 

[Gepetto]

Thanks Joe. I think I've been subconsciously reconstructing my dad's cabinet stereo from the 60's

I would look through the Lafayette catalog back in the early 60s and that was the turntable that I wanted back then. It just looked cool.