Garrard Type A II

Pure_Brew

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#1
I'm currently messing with this changer, I got it oiled and playing. However, when the changer functions try to engage, it slows to a stop. Doesn't seem to be enough torque. If I help/push the record along, it will finish performing the functions. I think the idler drive is slipping as it is old and dry. I have some rubber cleaner/rejuvenator for tape deck wheels, maybe I should try some. Suggestions?

thanks
 

Gepetto

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#2
Take a look at the motor armature if you can while it is slowing down to see if you can see it bog down too. Sometimes the oilite bearings in the motor get caked up with old lubricant and add to the drag that the motor sees.
 

Pure_Brew

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Thanks for the reply Joe. I did oil the top bearing of the motor and the other general maintenance spots. But I think having it all sit for the day, along with Larry's rubber rejuvenator on the idler wheel did the trick. The first time around I had to help it, but now it seems to be flying along like a champ.

I also think that not only has it been sitting unused, an armature that would engage a cam near the spindle had dropped too low to engage. It was a minor adjustment with a few turns of a screw. I'm guessing that this may have happened decades ago after using the table a bunch. Who knows. But likely working the mechanisms a few times by pushing the platter around helped to loosen things up a bit.

I think the speed was a bit slower before, which seems to be improved. I haven't checked it with a strobe. The sound is steady. The idler wheel wasn't damaged other then being really very dry. Rumbly sounding table, needs new outer and inner platter foam which turned to dust. New ones should help a little.

The needle looks ok, was extremely dirty. Mister Clean magic sponge fixed that. Played some Sinatra. Woo Hoo!
 
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Pure_Brew

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#4
Take a look at the motor armature if you can while it is slowing down to see if you can see it bog down too. Sometimes the oilite bearings in the motor get caked up with old lubricant and add to the drag that the motor sees.
Joe, re-reading this post, I think you could be right. It is still running at bit slow. I can really only see the platter in motion, which is driven by the idler tire underneath. It runs better the day one with the lube and rubber treatment, which I can do more with. I could pull the idler and clean the shaft, there is likely a bit of sludge there. Not so sure about the spindle bearing. But motor service doesn't look like something I can do, at this point.
 

stuwee

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#5
It's worth the work...very nice table, please post some pics, vintage TT's rock, rock solid speed.

What a lot of people forget is that 3 or 4 grams of tracking force will Not, hurt your Lps!! the worse damage comes from a loose tonearm with a crap cartdrige bouncing back and forth...wall to to wall, nasty damage.
 

Pure_Brew

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#6
I'm actually tracking at 5g with a Shure SC35C. I'm surprised at the overall excellent sound. I have the speed more under control now and the changer is working reliably. I pulled the idler wheel off and cleaned out the old oil and replaced. All of the works underneath got qtip dabbed with a very light lubricant. I just kept manually turning everything, looking for parts in motion and lubed it up.

Also tried cleaning and oiling around the motor bearing. I think it helped.

I'll see if I can get a few pics but its only mounted on what's left of the old drawer lol.

I did hear for the first time a waggling back and forth with the old cart in place (pickering U38 "chicken head") on a few 78's. Holy Crap that was bad. Seems to be gone now but I'm only playing 33's on it. I can get a 78rpm stylus for this cart, which I likely will. However, the 78's I heard the channel waggle on might have been from old damage. We'll see.
 
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Pure_Brew

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#10
I'm now sending the idler out to be rebuilt. It's just a bit too dry and it has had a lot of wear. I discovered that the motor mounts are really bad. This might be adding to the torque problem. Makes me wonder if part of the reason the TT works fine for awhile after everytime I work on it, the motor shifts a bit when I tip it. Then it likely gets pushed around too much during higher demand. Not sure what to do about those mounts. I think it'll be some trial and error to get them right.

Any suggestions for the mounts?

I guess I'm going to keep on the restoration path with this one. I keep getting nice sound from it and it will play everything. I'm actually concidering going all in on it and using it as a primary, rather then a secondary and just clean house.
 

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#11
That's an oldie, Joe. Here are the pictures of my old Garrard Synchro-Lab 72B changer. It's not quite as old as yours, though.















Nando.
 

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Cool. That's a lot of changes in like 5 years or so. One major caveat on the Type A is the spindle. It doesn't spin, so the record spins around it. Bad news if the record has a tight hole. Otherwise it's a gentle changer for 78's as it doesn't have sharp flange thrusting thru the center. The 45 adaptor does have a bearing however.

Now that Victor record your playing is 1920's or earlier. I'm assuming you have a 78rpm needle on it? Those records pre 1940 may have slate powder in them and will really grind things up. I still need a 78 needle, which they make for this cart, but it's likely not going to last long on records like that one. Edit: I just noticed its a Canadian label lol.
 
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Pure_Brew

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#13
More Goodies

Bonus. Found a parts table on Craigslist for cheap, 5 minutes from my work.

Had the cover. Weird looking, but rare, and without breakage. Got the single-play spindle which was nice. Nice to have another headshell. I didn't even know it had this Shure on it, which has nice sound but the needle is probably near end of life. I did some poking around on the Shure and it actually has some value. It's an M3D.
 

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orange

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#14
Garrards are kinda neat...real machines with guts to fix. Probably makes you realize how spoiled rotten you get with direct drive tables.

Thanks for sharing a nice old beastie :)
 

Elite-ist

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#15
Cool. That's a lot of changes in like 5 years or so. One major caveat on the Type A is the spindle. It doesn't spin, so the record spins around it. Bad news if the record has a tight hole. Otherwise it's a gentle changer for 78's as it doesn't have sharp flange thrusting thru the center. The 45 adaptor does have a bearing however.

Now that Victor record your playing is 1920's or earlier. I'm assuming you have a 78rpm needle on it? Those records pre 1940 may have slate powder in them and will really grind things up. I still need a 78 needle, which they make for this cart, but it's likely not going to last long on records like that one. Edit: I just noticed its a Canadian label lol.
Hi Joe,

I was in the midst of sourcing out a 78 needle for the Garrard, but I had gifted the turntable, KEF speakers, and Pioneer SA integrated amplifier as a starter system for my step-daughter, before I invested any more time in finding one. I don't think she would be spinning any of the old stuff. That picture of the old 78 is one of the records I picked up with the Garrard. I didn't actually play it, as there is a nice Shure MM-7 cartridge on it. The spindle for the record changer is housed in a compartment on the right side of the tonearrm, along with a few other parts.

Nando.
 

Pure_Brew

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Nando, that's funny I got an SA integrated with this and a fisher tube tuner. I imagine that there was a fisher integrated originally in the home made cabinet I pulled these from. On the 78's I forget what people know about these things. I'm learning now what people here already knew forever. I'm probably going to grab a 78 needle for the new Shure SC35C on one of the headshells. I'm debating on a new 33/45 needle for that antique M3D, but it has a nice "retro" sound to it.

Garrards are kinda neat...real machines with guts to fix. Probably makes you realize how spoiled rotten you get with direct drive tables.

Thanks for sharing a nice old beastie :)
Thanks it's a fun player. Lotta parts! I hate to think about what I'd have to go through to change out the bearings in the center. Looks like I'd have to dismantle the entire thing...on two tables... Aaarrrgh!
 

orange

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#20
I think I have those, if they are the inverted conical kind that taper inward and are rounded on the ends?

A slight bit of gear envy as neither of my 6500 II components made it back to life (the tuner was parted to fix an overseas friend's rig and the amp was lost during the clearing of my last repairman's shop (he lost half his leg to diabetes and retired).
 
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