TEAC Monster.....

vince666

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#81
Well that's pretty much picking him apart completely and saying that he doesn't know what he's talking about.

I'll take it under advisement. I've seen him fix dozens of machines and I've seen the frequency responses after he's done, so I take what other people say with a grain of salt. I've also seen him get to the bottom of wow and flutter issues and a plethora of problems that other people would have given up on. Is there someone better? Sure I'm pretty positive there is, but it is what it is.

In other words everybody has an opinion, and I I don't believe much of anything that I hear until it's proven to me.

I don't wish to discuss this any further, I am new here, but I don't like opinions pushed on me too much. Enjoy the rest of your day.
but, hey, he isn't the only one.... there are so many like that, daring to teach people how (NOT) to make things... LOL :p

about frequency response, if you don't totally separate the playback situation from the recording situation (and taking care of the playback alone, at first) , there are sooooo many ways to get an apparently good REC/PB response (because, by recording, he is actually making a REC/PB response) while, really, they are simply compensating an error on playback by tweaking the recording parameters and adding more error on the REC side, or viceversa.
In other words, there are so many ways to fool yourself in thinking you made a good work while, really, you simply made the deck worse as it was before putting your hands on it.

For the rest.... well, have fun on youtube if it seems to be an easier task...
The whole matter of magnetic recording is something rather complex, after all, and reading written technical posts can be less pleasant than simply watching a video.

Last... I am not pushing any opinions on you, I am very far from doing that... you have no faults at all if the guy is making mistakes and spreading them around like if it was all good stuff.
I am simply trying to defend someone who may wish to learn and, without any faults on his side, he is subjected to such kind of misinformation. ;):)
I am not able to put in evidence such bad mistakes in a "gentler" way, then I try to call things with their own true name, as simple as that.

have a good day. ;)
 
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vince666

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#82
just to give you a proper idea that there are sooo many there at youtube which make an "apparently good" work while, really, they don't...

watch at this video... the guy seems to have quite some followers...


I avoid going in details on all the wrong stuff I detected in this video...
but there is one which made me laugh really heavily...
go around minute 29 in the video (you might start slightly before, though)...
The guy simply forgot to put a spring in the mechanism when (and where) it needed to be put there in place.
When he realizes there is a spring too much left on his table it's just too late and he should go back a bit, but he simply puts it in a funny way (which is totally wrong, btw) and his satisfied face because he found that solution made me falling down my chair laughing! NICE ACTION! LOL! :p
The part of that spring which goes towards the inside of the mech is touching a black plastic lever which is suppoused to be left alone, free of moving, without something which touches the top side of it... but he just doesn't realize it.... also, his way of checking wow and flutter "by eyes" on the oscilloscope is just funny!
Evidently, I wasted time and money in trying to get a proper/professional speed and W&F test cassette and a specific W&F meter and in trying to learn how to use it. ;)

Of course, I own another Technics deck from that same series (mine is the upper model RS-M63) which shares that same exact kind of mechanism.
Differently than that guy, to properly clean/restore it, I did dismantle it just totally and it's not an easy mechanism to work on.
Then I perfectly know that spring is totally misplaced as the guy puts it back in the deck.
But he doesn't care, he didn't even bother to carefully read the service manual because he feels too good to read any service manuals.
Evidently, service manuals are just for all those ignorant guys like myself.... not for those who were born with some inbuilt knowledge like that guy. :p
 
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vince666

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#85
looking at another video....

and OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!!! :eek:

go and see from about 3:04 in this video...


since he doesn't know how to relap a cassette heads with its own inbuilt guides on (there is a safe way to do it, btw) , he thought to BEND the guides!

NEVER EVER DREAM OF DOING THAT!!!! :eek:

I am reluctant to explain, in public, about how to relap heads to NOT encourage unexpert people in doing that kind of work, where it needs a tiny mistake to destroy the head for good....
and then I see this guy who bends the tape guides like that and also makes a video to teach people about how to, basicly, damage them! :eek:

the tolerances on the heads guides are so strict that you just cannot hope you can safely bend them, lap the head, and then bend the guides back in place.... someone should stop this guy from spreading such a dangerous CRAP! :eek:

EDIT: also, he shows the heads under his microscope after the lapping work and, OMG, the zones he lapped look totally flattened, without trying to keep the contour shape of the head surface.... this is a true destroyer, not a repair man!
Not a mystery, now, that he needs to add a 1000pF loading capacitor at the PB side input circuit... after his lapping job, the head is good for the landfill! ;)

please, NEVER EVER DREAM OF DOING IT THAT WAY. ;)

PS: anyways, this time what I see is SOOO dangerous to be spreaded around that way, that I bothered to comment just there at youtube. ;)
 
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#89
I can understand that.

I sold off my record collection about three years ago, it just got too big and the time was right. Today I have a modest collection of under 80 LPs.

I subscribe to a couple of streaming services, but I've been having fun with cassette lately after a 30 year hiatus.
 
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e30m3mon

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#90
I bought a Nakamichi 682ZX new in the early 80s, have not used in years. Recently turned it on and realized the transport needs attention ... lubrication and probably belts and more. I go back and forth between selling as-is or tearing the covers off and refreshing everything. Prior to the Nak I owned at least 10 decks from Teac, Harmon-Kardon, Sony, Pioneer ... others I can't recall, none of them impressed me, so I went for what was the top dog at the time.

Reading all the recent posts of cassette tapes and decks has me wondering about that rebuild or sell question...ugh!
 
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#91
That's a very nice deck, and I actually have a 680ZX coming to me tomorrow, and this one was serviced at Mort’s's TV and radio in Levitown PA. I think I just cringed when I mentioned a technician lol.

I've used him before, and he is repairing a Marantz 2385 receiver for me right now, and hope to get that back soon.

Your 682ZX is a very good deck and from what I understand a lot easier to service than many other decks.

I recently bought a Nakamichi BX – 300 from the original owner, and it was supposed to be working and was not when I received it. It was a simple belt replacement, the hardest part was getting the belt goo off of everything.
 

vince666

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#92
Great to see this thread became a new life.

I've done everthing with cassettedecks, but I've got bored of them at a certain moment...


Nevertheless:



This trio never let me down...

...
Great to see the thread coming back to life, Miles, but I went a bit off topic... sorry... LOL :D

btw, that makes a total of NINE heads there. :p
 

20tajk7

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#93
he may not be a beginner, but it seems he is getting everything the wrong way, sorry.

give a watch at this video... you might have the patience of watching it fully, I didn't!
Point is that I watched the first 3-4 minutes and spotted so many wrong information that I stopped because I was literally feeling bad.
then I jumped at random at about 7 minutes and, again, at about 9 minutes and spotted more wrong stuff.
IMO, the guy is totally hopeless but that's not a problem in itself... it becomes a problem when he spreads misinformation around the net, though.


will show you the main mistakes i spotted in the few minutes of this video I watched...

at about 0:47 , he says he lightly lapped the heads which didn't have significant wear... well, even from that low resolution and not too close view of the heads, I can easily spot some wear groove at that piece of metal bar between REC and PB heads and if you're going to lap the heads that bit of groove will go away together with the groove on the heads themselves... then I suspect there is still a wear groove on the heads but the picture is not clear enough to know it.... anyways, my confidence in his expertize is just going to be close to zero.
To get a better idea of what I mean, give a look at this post, where you can see close-up pics of a head before, during and after the lapping process (it was me to explain AlexSE how to do that, btw)...
As you can see, together with the wear groove on both REC and PB heads, also that bit of wear groove at that piece of metal bar in the middle of the two heads has gone away.
https://forums.phxaudiotape.com/threads/head-groove-o-mania.10288/page-3#post-307966

at about 1:14 , he pushes the REC button and the video is talking about tweaking the PLAY response... but, is he joking?
This is a TOTALLY WRONG way of looking at this kind of problem and, then, everything else is influenced by this rookie mistake.
I mean... playback is playback and recording is recording, period.... this is the ABC of decks and magnetic recording in general.
In fact, on any decks, you have to first evaluate and make sure the playback side ALONE is OK and it must be evaluated in itself, without pushing that REC button.
Of course, to evaluate the playback response, you need to own some proper/professional/lab-grade/reliable playback frequency response calibration tape which is a tape with some kind of test tones in it... that tape would be your actual reference and you need to simply PLAY it and then see if the playback side of the deck is OK or not.
After the playback side is OK, you can finally take one or more blank tapes and start recording... but, this time, you will be evaluating only the recording side, not the playback!
The recording side needs to be made after you have just got the PB right, simply because you will still be evaluating the recording through the playback of the same deck which will be the reference to rely on while checking the recording, then if the playback (evaluated alone) isn't just OK, you cannot say anything about the recording.
BUT, what the guy is doing by evaluating the playback while recording onto a tape is just the worst of the worst mistakes I may think about.
That's because he is mixing (well, he is messing really!) playback and recording, judging as a playback problem what it might easily be due to wrong recording calibration or maybe also a tape which is not flat on that deck anyway.
That's just like driving a car while being totally blind: you are still "driving" but you simply don't know where you started from and when you are going to or if you are going off road or crashing against another car, a tree or a wall.
Don't know if you are getting what I mean.... but this is a so bad mistake that, even if the guy isn't a beginner, he would make better to forget everything he think he learnt and restart from scratch the right way... a true beginner is more likely to make a good work than a trained guy who was trained the wrong way.


at about 2 minutes in the video, I can finally see his frequency analyzer... well, the division at the y-axis is 10dB... not that much accurate!
with such a large division, curves will look more flat, then they are more beautiful to see...
while I am evaluating frequency responses, I usually keep the y-axis division to only 1dB or 2dB at max... this magnifies the "errors" so much that also a nice frequency response will not look perfectly flat, but I am not interested in curves which are nice to see... I am interested in seeing things with more accuracy.
if that frequency spectrum analyzer isn't able to zoom-in the y-axis division up to 1dB or 2dB then it means that software is basicly a toy.
(I am using another software, though)

then, after 2 minutes he starts making a few speculations, drawing conclusions, etc... all pointless stuff... so, at about 3:40 i simply stopped because I had just enough of it. :eek:

but... jumping directly at about 7 minutes, i see the guy tweaking the response (most likely he is tweaking the REC parameters, since he is still recording) and he does complain about a boost a mid-hi frequencies... well, there are so many tapes which, on most decks, do show some mid-hi boost... so what?

last, I jumped at about 9 to 9:20 in the video, hearing the guy who thinks he can be better than the Sony or Nakamichi engineers, in fact he is going to correct the playback EQ amp (and, don't forget he stated the playback is wrong by RECORDING!) by putting 1000pF capacitor as a load at the playback head or that he did put such a capacitor value on a Dragon deck because, evidently, he thinks the Nakamichi engineers had got it wrong and he can correct them.... but, hey, 1000pF for that kind of purpose is a WHOLE LOT of capacitance, none of the PB heads out there will need that much loading capacitance! Then he is totally ruining some, otherwise good, decks! :eek:


Sorry if I am so hard towards that guy.... but I just cannot forgive someone who spreads such bad/dangerous misinformation around the net.
It simply makes all the efforts by the true experts, who spent several years in a forum trying to teach the good stuff, a total waste of time.
People are more likely to enjoy learning on a youtube video than by reading a written post in a specialized forum.
But, hey, till now i've never seen the true experts making videos on youtube and this guy isn't an exception but maybe one of the worst ones I've ever seen.

If you are brave enough to watch the whole video (I wasn't) then, please, draw your own conclusions by simply using some common sense... because it's not simply a matter of having any specific knowledge about cassette decks, those mistakes are so bad that you will simply need to use some common sense to realize it. ;)

On a specialized forum, if someone happens to tell/spread a wrong information, a true expert will likely chime in and correct/explain him.
On youtube, there is no quality control whatsoever on the information spreaded around.

Then, please, do yourself a favour... stop going on youtube while hoping to get any good/proper information about cassette decks... there isn't any or, maybe, there is some good stuff mixed with some bad stuff, all within the same video, and you might not be able to distinguish what is good from what is not.
As for myself, I sometimes watch a youtube video about cassettes to simply have a good laugh on it but, hey, in the end such videos make me really sick, because I just can't do anything to correct or stop the bad misinformation from being spreaded around.


Cheers,

Vince.
I second that, before tweaking the playback amp of a 870ES/222ESL, the rec amp should components should be replaced with the values used in the 970ES/333ESL and the 4066 switch replaced by ANT4066 or MAX4066, that drastically improves the recording performance, lowers the distortion and extend the calibration capabilities.
 

vince666

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#94
I second that, before tweaking the playback amp of a 870ES/222ESL, the rec amp should components should be replaced with the values used in the 970ES/333ESL and the 4066 switch replaced by ANT4066 or MAX4066, that drastically improves the recording performance, lowers the distortion and extend the calibration capabilities.
you are obviously right, my friend.

but do you think that "technician" has any ideas about what are you meaning?
yours is just very advanced tweaking/optimization/modification stuff. ;)

but, do the 970/333 and the 870/222 share the same kind of heads? just wondering...
if so, the guy applied his own "lapping magic" to some wonderful amorphous heads. :eek:
 

20tajk7

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#95
just to give you a proper idea that there are sooo many there at youtube which make an "apparently good" work while, really, they don't...

watch at this video... the guy seems to have quite some followers...


I avoid going in details on all the wrong stuff I detected in this video...
but there is one which made me laugh really heavily...
go around minute 29 in the video (you might start slightly before, though)...
The guy simply forgot to put a spring in the mechanism when (and where) it needed to be put there in place.
When he realizes there is a spring too much left on his table it's just too late and he should go back a bit, but he simply puts it in a funny way (which is totally wrong, btw) and his satisfied face because he found that solution made me falling down my chair laughing! NICE ACTION! LOL! :p
The part of that spring which goes towards the inside of the mech is touching a black plastic lever which is suppoused to be left alone, free of moving, without something which touches the top side of it... but he just doesn't realize it.... also, his way of checking wow and flutter "by eyes" on the oscilloscope is just funny!
Evidently, I wasted time and money in trying to get a proper/professional speed and W&F test cassette and a specific W&F meter and in trying to learn how to use it. ;)

Of course, I own another Technics deck from that same series (mine is the upper model RS-M63) which shares that same exact kind of mechanism.
Differently than that guy, to properly clean/restore it, I did dismantle it just totally and it's not an easy mechanism to work on.
Then I perfectly know that spring is totally misplaced as the guy puts it back in the deck.
But he doesn't care, he didn't even bother to carefully read the service manual because he feels too good to read any service manuals.
Evidently, service manuals are just for all those ignorant guys like myself.... not for those who were born with some inbuilt knowledge like that guy. :p
Yet another YT know-it-all, he uses a magnetized screwdriver to reassemble the mechanism, then demagnetize the head & capstan, then uses that same magnetized screwdriver to adjust the azimuth (with an unknown 3kHz tape) ! :D
 

20tajk7

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#96
you are obviously right, my friend.

but do you think that "technician" has any ideas about what are you meaning?
yours is just very advanced tweaking/optimization/modification stuff. ;)

but, do the 970/333 and the 870/222 share the same kind of heads? just wondering...
if so, the guy applied his own "lapping magic" to some wonderful amorphous heads. :eek:
Yes I remember threads from 2018/19 about these decks, apparently that's the same heads but rec eq is different in 870ES/222ESL, some thinks it was deliberately done by Sony to have the 970ES/333ESL sounding better.

Anyway the head isn't magically lapped it's just ruined, reminds a French dude self proclaimed reVox specialist who used a grinder to lap the heads of an A77 !
 

vince666

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#97
Yet another YT know-it-all, he uses a magnetized screwdriver to reassemble the mechanism, then demagnetize the head & capstan, then uses that same magnetized screwdriver to adjust the azimuth (with an unknown 3kHz tape) ! :D
yes, but he fixes them all! LOL! :toothy8:
(the problem is "how", though)

that video is full of funny/wrong things... but that part where he fits that spring i mentioned is terrific... i would feel ashamed if that happened to me but, hey, he proudly shared the video on YT. :p
 

vince666

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#98
Yes I remember threads from 2018/19 about these decks, apparently that's the same heads but rec eq is different in 870ES/222ESL, some thinks it was deliberately done by Sony to have the 970ES/333ESL sounding better.

Anyway the head isn't magically lapped it's just ruined, reminds a French dude self proclaimed reVox specialist who used a grinder to lap the heads of an A77 !
yes, if i remember, it was Alex/A.N.T. talking about the different rec eq on the 870 vs the 970 as a deliberate way to not nicely exploit the tapes fully in recording on the 870... the 870 risked to be too good so that there was no point in buying a 970?

the way the guy laps the heads is something which literally shocked me... i feel phisically bad for those unlucky heads, with bent guides and flattened lapped areas... hey, why the head's producers didn't directly make them flat/rectangular and bothered to make a curved shape is something which puzzles me at now. LOL :p
 

vince666

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#99
(with an unknown 3kHz tape) ! :D
and while evaluating W&F "by eyes" on the oscilloscope.... that's pure art! :p

EDIT: but only now i am noticeing that detail of adjusting the azimuth with that unknown tape and at only 3Khz... thanks for opening my eyes on this!
There are so many "things to learn" on such videos that you might miss a few, at first. LOL! :p /EDIT

but... did you see when he scrubs a piece of sandpaper on the motor's hub? :toothy7:

the owner of that deck is lucky that he didn't also "clean" the pinch roller with nail files... LOL (the underlined part won't look like a random thing, if you are so good to remember about a certain thing from the past at another place.... ;) )

btw, the guy's laboratory is just FULL of nice gear...... what a waste! :iconbiggrin:
 
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