Twin D-500 Restore-a-Thon / Full-Comp WOPL upgrade (+ first a PL 400 S2 WOPLing / Proof of concept / Process debug )

[Vynuladikt]

Lee, given that I'm proposing to take 2 scopes (+ new caps) and make 1 good one out of them,
I was hoping to find a quality troubleshooting guide.

Good news -- here's a period-correct Tek troubleshooting manual. I skimmed through it -- looks very informative.
NOTE: If anyone out there has a scope like this, I've attached the file to this posting FWIW.

View attachment 58641

Here's to happy Scope Doping!
:0)

Thanks for sharing. I have two of these old workhorses

 

[AngrySailor]

Lee, given that I'm proposing to take 2 scopes (+ new caps) and make 1 good one out of them,
I was hoping to find a quality troubleshooting guide.

Good news -- here's a period-correct Tek troubleshooting manual. I skimmed through it -- looks very informative.
NOTE: If anyone out there has a scope like this, I've attached the file to this posting FWIW.

View attachment 58641

Here's to happy Scope Doping!
:0)

Nice. I’ve got a 465 that seems quiffy. The CRT works and will show a center dot, I can move the dot with the horizontal and vertical calibration knobs and if I recall it will deflect with a signal but not correctly and I can’t get a trace. Pretty sure I had things set up correctly in that I should have at least seen something but she was a no go. I’ll have to trouble shoot it some time. Thanks for the guide.

 

[D-500 Flogger]

Mayor McCheese was indicted in 1980 on counts of fraud and embezzlement. You don’t want him.

This is also why he has not been seen in McDeTh advertising since. Corporate wanted to distance themselves from the mayor.

Carry on.

No worries -- where I'm living this is a well-worn path, & nobody will notice. (Thinking of our ex-governor & his little brother as {former} CNN lead Big Brother cheerleader.)

"Would you like some fries with that self-aggrandizement, Guv"?

:0)

 

[Gepetto]

OK, for the handful of Tone Warriors following along, last night I introduced myself to the PL 400 S2 amp that I'm going to use as my 'proof of concept' for taking my vintage Phase Linear gear & making it better instead of worse.

It's going to get the honor of not only debugging the electronics workshop that I've yet to build...but also help me re-acquaint myself with the analog skills that weren't directly involved in making the mortgage payments the past 40+ years.

Seems like a lot to put on a small ~40 year old amplifier, but in the scheme of things I think that this is a good jumping-off point. (ie: To go from 0 > max effort, fully comp D500 is not a recipe for success.)

Without further ado, here's the upgrade candidate: PL 400 S2, Serno #22969, production ID sticker = " Darlene ".

View attachment 58716

Logo closeup:
View attachment 58717

Darlene scrubbed up good:
View attachment 58718

View attachment 58719

Background info: Bought this maybe a dozen years ago, made the purchasing AND gate based on a) not left outside/dragged behind 4-wheeler, b) essentially complete (but missing top cover) and c) really sold at a reasonable "as-is, no guarantees auction price".

The actual purchasing details are lost, but I think the auction + shipping < $100.

My goal(s) with this amp: See how far I can take it, performance-wise. (Think my control unit for when I do the Carver Null test against future upgrade candidates -- I'd like to be able to document in a lossless audio file where you can actually listen to the before/after audible differences of one/or all amplifier mods...so that you can best decide what to do based upon what matters to you sonically vs. all the FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, & Doubt) heavily trafficked across the interwebs. (!)

Also, come up with a cost-effective way to mitigate the visual ouch of the 4 rack-mount holes that somebody inflicted on Darlene. (Could be as simple as 4 button head allen fasteners -- you know, a subtle tip of the hat to her history without having to stare at the previous owner's hackery.)
NOTE: Visuals are arguably more important in the main system -- but we can relax the eye-candy standard on a workshop amp! :0)


So, I am actually building it for me. My plan is to be listening to this very amp through a pair of Infinity Qe bookshelf speakers mounted strategically in my lab workspace while tackling the 2 bigger Unicorns. Done correctly, thanks to the proposed sound reinforcement in my new workspace my productivity will be at/near my personal best.

So happy to be breaking ground. The cornerstone of this whole adventure is Darlene -- all I'm missing are the silver-plated shovels & Mayor McCheese...

We have a cure for your faceplate woes, we can make Darlene into a pretty woman again.

 

[NeverSatisfied]

Triple D seems to have stuck, lol.
I am definitely looking forward to watching your progress and have the utmost confidence that these gents will get you over any obstacles you may encounter.
In your shop/lab build, I would throw this in for your consideration, I use a marine plastic called Starboard (HDPE) for my bench tops. It is impervious to most chemicals and very dense but is soft enough that it won’t mar any objects you place on it. I used 1/4 inch thickness on top of 3/4 inch plywood but you can get it as thick as one inch and it can be ordered in 4x8 sheets.

 

[laatsch55]

Youre a sic man Spencer...

 

[J!m]

Our acid tanks are made of it I think.

4x8x1” thick should be roughly as heavy as an anvil. A big one.

 

[D-500 Flogger]

Triple D seems to have stuck, lol.
I am definitely looking forward to watching your progress and have the utmost confidence that these gents will get you over any obstacles you may encounter.
In your shop/lab build, I would throw this in for your consideration, I use a marine plastic called Starboard (HDPE) for my bench tops. It is impervious to most chemicals and very dense but is soft enough that it won’t mar any objects you place on it. I used 1/4 inch thickness on top of 3/4 inch plywood but you can get it as thick as one inch and it can be ordered in 4x8 sheets. View attachment 58731 View attachment 58732 View attachment 58735

That's a great tip! This is *exactly* the kind of input I'm looking for!

To be honest I have vacillated between calling the repurposed room an electronics lab, project workspace, or mental health spa/sanatorium . :0)

Of course I'd like to make my electricity hero (Nikola Tesla) proud, but as always if I really go all out on the workspace the money will be stolen from the amp project(s). Then again, insufficient lab equipment = I go blind to what's going in the circuit under scrutiny way before I can 'grok' who is the victim vs. who is the perpetrator of whatever is missing the mark...

Ergo, my gut says invest in the lab 'til it hurts, and then the amp projects will be ground out, no problem, in a righteous audiophile mortar & pestle. ;0) I *do* know that the military gave me some truly amazing equipment (far up into the GHZ range) in order to test/fix the hearing of the threat warning systems...and this lession was not lost on yours truly. (Rock-solid, proved itself to be something I could trust no matter how counterintuitive the path it was leading me down. (!)

Old Nik may yawn at the voltages & currents I'll be working on, but I do hope to make the folks reading this proud.

Come on now, keep those cards & letters coming! Be thinking about the test equipment you have...and if you had to do it over, what would you replace it with?

****

1) Sometimes you're helping a neighbor get their rusted steed through one more safety inspection, and he's running the car on a bicycle budget...so of course you end up at the Tool Circus (aka Harbor Freight) in order to squeak by. (Assuming Advance Auto didn't have the freebie loaner that fit. Hey, I'm no snob, been there/done that. :0) ...But thankfully, not THIS time -- I've been saving up for this, no melting of credit cards in the offing. (Whew)

2) Then there's buying new equipment that fits into your modest budget -- thinking of the affordable WooHang stuff at the affordable end of the ebay o-scope search. (But instead of *buying* stuff in this category, I'd rather *invest* in carefully chosen stuff from category #3 below.)

3) Then there's buying the previously-enjoyed 'no-kidding' commercial test equipment for a bit more money. You may have to renew caps & stuff, but once you're finished you've got something that will give you a repeatable measurement + a lot less head scratching on any given day. (This is where I consider the Tek 465/475 to fit.)

4) Finally, there's the old purpose-built mil-spec test gear. Performance/price vs. price/performance when it was originally built, can be pure heaven to use in anger...but if/when it goes bad the repair parts were always low-volume bits...and now made of unobtanium.

****

Again, thanks for the tip on the Starboard! I gotta do everything, so whether it's equipment or the workbench to put it on, I wanna hear what your Taj Mahal troubleshooting/analysis analog test equipment setup would be. (And know that the lighting will be set up to be at the "Unfair Advantage" level...I'm not getting any younger, and if I have to cheat in order to win -- so be it! :0)

Thanks for your time & attention to this matter --

 

[Gepetto]

If you use that surfacing on your bench, be sure to put a grounded anti-static mat on top of it if you are going to do electronics repair. That polyethylene will hold a static charge like nothing else, superb insulator.

 

[D-500 Flogger]

If you use that surfacing on your bench, be sure to put a grounded anti-static mat on top of it if you are going to do electronics repair. That polyethylene will hold a static charge like nothing else, superb insulator.

Great point! Back in the early '80s mother DEC managed to figure out that as they souped up the clock speeds & started shrinking the logic gates, that everyone touching these new, faster, spendy logic modules were either weakening or outright blowing the logic gates with uncontrolled static.

I actually remember when they switched from modules in cardboard containers to these new 'pink poly' bags. I also remember watching a video of this bald-headed dude talk about NASA clean rooms + uncontrolled static leading to a serious incident.

Guess what? Youtube delivers yet again! This is the very video I remember...and when my new lab coat had conductive fibers in it, + the newest machines all had anti-static wrist straps installed in every cabinet, I made sure to take advantage of it all. I wasn't so worried about the outright DOA parts...it was weakening a module & having it turn into a intermittent source of crashing the customer's business that had me spooked.

Great observation, Joe. This will certainly help anyone down the road who's following the bread crumbs we're leaving behind...

 

[NeverSatisfied]

That's a great tip! This is *exactly* the kind of input I'm looking for!

To be honest I have vacillated between calling the repurposed room an electronics lab, project workspace, or mental health spa/sanatorium . :0)

Of course I'd like to make my electricity hero (Nikola Tesla) proud, but as always if I really go all out on the workspace the money will be stolen from the amp project(s). Then again, insufficient lab equipment = I go blind to what's going in the circuit under scrutiny way before I can 'grok' who is the victim vs. who is the perpetrator of whatever is missing the mark...

Ergo, my gut says invest in the lab 'til it hurts, and then the amp projects will be ground out, no problem, in a righteous audiophile mortar & pestle. ;0) I *do* know that the military gave me some truly amazing equipment (far up into the GHZ range) in order to test/fix the hearing of the threat warning systems...and this lession was not lost on yours truly. (Rock-solid, proved itself to be something I could trust no matter how counterintuitive the path it was leading me down. (!)

Old Nik may yawn at the voltages & currents I'll be working on, but I do hope to make the folks reading this proud.

Come on now, keep those cards & letters coming! Be thinking about the test equipment you have...and if you had to do it over, what would you replace it with?

****

1) Sometimes you're helping a neighbor get their rusted steed through one more safety inspection, and he's running the car on a bicycle budget...so of course you end up at the Tool Circus (aka Harbor Freight) in order to squeak by. (Assuming Advance Auto didn't have the freebie loaner that fit. Hey, I'm no snob, been there/done that. :0) ...But thankfully, not THIS time -- I've been saving up for this, no melting of credit cards in the offing. (Whew)

2) Then there's buying new equipment that fits into your modest budget -- thinking of the affordable WooHang stuff at the affordable end of the ebay o-scope search. (But instead of *buying* stuff in this category, I'd rather *invest* in carefully chosen stuff from category #3 below.)

3) Then there's buying the previously-enjoyed 'no-kidding' commercial test equipment for a bit more money. You may have to renew caps & stuff, but once you're finished you've got something that will give you a repeatable measurement + a lot less head scratching on any given day. (This is where I consider the Tek 465/475 to fit.)

4) Finally, there's the old purpose-built mil-spec test gear. Performance/price vs. price/performance when it was originally built, can be pure heaven to use in anger...but if/when it goes bad the repair parts were always low-volume bits...and now made of unobtanium.

****

Again, thanks for the tip on the Starboard! I gotta do everything, so whether it's equipment or the workbench to put it on, I wanna hear what your Taj Mahal troubleshooting/analysis analog test equipment setup would be. (And know that the lighting will be set up to be at the "Unfair Advantage" level...I'm not getting any younger, and if I have to cheat in order to win -- so be it! :0)

Thanks for your time & attention to this matter --

I put a lot of thought, blood, sweat and mistakes into my shop. Most of it turned out the way I envisioned but some things I just overthought. Fortunately lighting and electrical outlets were on the done right list. You can’t have enough of either.

 

[NeverSatisfied]

If you use that surfacing on your bench, be sure to put a grounded anti-static mat on top of it if you are going to do electronics repair. That polyethylene will hold a static charge like nothing else, superb insulator.

Honestly I did not consider that, fortunately I have never noticed any static charge.
Would it be possible to ground the entire bench top instead of using a mat ?

 

[Gepetto]

Honestly I did not consider that, fortunately I have never noticed any static charge.
Would it be possible to ground the entire bench top instead of using a mat ?

Unfortunately no Spencer. You need to put a dissipating mat on top of that excellent insulator and ground that to your safety ground.

 

[Gepetto]

Great point! Back in the early '80s mother DEC managed to figure out that as they souped up the clock speeds & started shrinking the logic gates, that everyone touching these new, faster, spendy logic modules were either weakening or outright blowing the logic gates with uncontrolled static.

I actually remember when they switched from modules in cardboard containers to these new 'pink poly' bags. I also remember watching a video of this bald-headed dude talk about NASA clean rooms + uncontrolled static leading to a serious incident.

Guess what? Youtube delivers yet again! This is the very video I remember...and when my new lab coat had conductive fibers in it, + the newest machines all had anti-static wrist straps installed in every cabinet, I made sure to take advantage of it all. I wasn't so worried about the outright DOA parts...it was weakening a module & having it turn into a intermittent source of crashing the customer's business that had me spooked.

Great observation, Joe. This will certainly help anyone down the road who's following the bread crumbs we're leaving behind...

We call those partially damaged devices “walking wounded”

 

[NeverSatisfied]

Unfortunately no Spencer. You need to put a dissipating mat on top of that excellent insulator and ground that to your safety ground.

Good to know, thanks for educating me. The shop was originally built for a variety of hobbies, gun smithing being primary and audio being further down on the list, that was until I got bit by the PL bug. Time to invest in a good anti static mat.

 

[laatsch55]

Are those Vidmar cabinets?

 

[D-500 Flogger]

We call those partially damaged devices “walking wounded”

Joe,

You are bringing back a lot of memories! In class I would explain that these machines were going into the "You Bet Your Business" mainframe/server arena. And if you 'fixed' a system that was crashing every 5 hours, and now it was crashing every 5 days to 5 weeks, you had actually managed to make the customer site *worse*, not better. (Especially since our rule of thumb was that you have to wait 2x the MTBF (Mean Time Between Failure) before declaring a victory. ...And 10 weeks is a *long* time to wait for the all clear...especially when the customer system only crashed when running payroll...and you were wearing the pager covering that machine. Talk about a computer room full of angry/stressed people when that happened. :0)

Anyway, I remember telling the class that if they weren't going to fix the machine exactly as we were going to teach them, then simply please don't touch it on the customer site. But all this (plus playing that video with the bald-headed character in it) got them to always wear an ESD lab coat & put the anti-static wrist strap on, & connect the second strap to the pelican-style case that held the $15K MCUs. (Multi-Chip Units, 16 per CPU)

It all sounds crazy, but once you had a solid machine they would run without crashing for at least a year. (Normally brought down annually for planned HW/SW upgrades, etc.)

What a great gig...but I'm equally happy not to be 'it' any longer. :0)

Good discussion/cautionary tale! Now that I'm spending *my* money on parts I'm highly motivated not to wound the new bits on the way in!!!

 

[NeverSatisfied]

A those Vidmar cabinets?

Not sure, bought them 20 year’s ago. They got 2 feet of water in them from hurricane Ike in 2008. Washed them out and soaked them with a 50/50 mixture of Marvel Mystery oil and WD40, not a spot of rust so far.

 

[Gepetto]

Good to know, thanks for educating me. The shop was originally built for a variety of hobbies, gun smithing being primary and audio being further down on the list, that was until I got bit by the PL bug. Time to invest in a good anti static mat.

The guns probably won’t mind the static

 

[D-500 Flogger]

I'll start.

You need a sturdy bench, with eye-searing light available. The bench I work on watches on, I have a 4-foot LED "shop light" I got at Home Depot. I bought two; however, one is more than enough! To control shadows, you may consider setting up in front of a window, and/or having your light come from several angles: Overhead, both sides- maybe one on a gooseneck, such as the popular IKEA one everyone uses for their truntables...

J!m,

You are so on target with your lighting comments!

For example, when I moved here last year, everything was perfect except for the lighting in the kitchen. It was dark with what was in the joint, so I first upped the lumens coming from the existing ceiling fixture. (safely w/quality LED bulb) It was a mixed success. More light was good, especially into the kitchen cabinets, but at the same time it actually made food prep on the cutting boards/countertop worse due to the sharper shadows. (I was standing between the ceiling light & what I was working on!)

By adding some undercabinet lighting I completely solved the issue. (Which is important, for I need a kitchen setup that encourages healthy food prep, for I'm a Type II diabetic (in good control of my #s) ...and I *always* get much better test #s on home-cooked food vs. restaurant take-out. (Even when practicing the 'only eat a 1/2 portion of a restaurant-sized serving at a time' rule.)

Anyway, just like Mark would recommend, I dug out my fast prime lens, put the whole shebang on a tripod, used the shutter timer for a no-shake snap...and for your viewing enjoyment here's some photos to show you the lighting before/after:

1) Kitchen w/microwave night light:



2) Kitchen with original ceiling light (only)



3) Kitchen with new undercabinet work surface lighting (only)



4) Kitchen with both light sources on



NOTE: IMHO, the light quality from the new undercabinet lighting is phenominal. The color temp is good, it doesn't flicker at all, and even the light dimming function is smooth. (Way better than anything I could find at Lowe's or Home Depot. To date.)

Disclaimer: I don't own stock in the company that made this lighting -- just a very satisfied customer. (And the older I get, the fussier I am about light quantity & quality!)

****

So yes we are in violent agreement. And the new electronics lab/sanatorium will be getting it's fair share of this type of lighting, too.

Cheers --