PL 400 renovation cost

[62vauxhall]

I guess I better give my two cents worth.
I have several 400’s in various places. For average listening throughout the house the 400 is over kill. There is not sound difference from my 700’s or d-500’s. They are lighter to lug around. Less power stress on the circuit’s. I really think for most a 400 is more than you need. It costs less to buy the core and a little cheaper to WOPl and a whole lot cheaper if you tweak the stock one.
Happy listening

Glen, maybe you remember the four fin 400 I brought over to your place? With the REV-E(?) board I got from you and also the outputs, you had it on your analyzer and said "265 watts before distortion".

 

[MarkWComer]

Is adding the DC protection board easy enough for novices ?

Very easy!

Thanks everyone,
I assume my PL 400 is a series one. I found the box and it makes no reference to "series 2" .

It won’t say “series one” anywhere, if the front has square output meters with swinging needle pointers, it’s a “series one.” There actually is no series one per sé, “Series Two” just signifies a redesign with LED power meters, a few changes in the circuitry.

 

[Wheel-right]

Thanks everyone,
I assume my PL 400 is a series one. I found the box and it makes no reference to "series 2" . I don't have easy access to the rear of the amp to ck there. I use it with a VTL tube preamp and Sonas Faber Venere speakers. To me, that combination has a wonderful sweet sound, good detail and a spacious soundstage. Having said that, my point of reference is the Dynaco 400 in my other system. I bought both of those amps new in the seventies and haven't obsessed about their sonic obsolescence until now. Back then I thought amps provided primarily the dampening horsepower required to precisely control the speakers as directed and sonically influenced by the preamp and other components. Is adding the DC protection board easy enough for novices ?

The Watts Abundant DCP is basic and pretty easy to install, I did mine knowing only basic electronics because the instructions are clear with not too much fancy going on. Did the Filter Cap upgrades also and now going to head on into the "REAL" of it and order the White Oak control board, backplanes, trans and the rest to do it up right. A lot of great help here if needed and plenty of info in the WOPL building and upgrade forums, check them out.

wattsabundant.com
WhiteOakAudio.com

 

[grapplesaw]

Glen, maybe you remember the four fin 400 I brought over to your place? With the REV-E(?) board I got from you and also the outputs, you had it on your analyzer and said "265 watts before distortion".

Yes I do recall it Gary. We put a updated rev c board in it with some tested mj15024 drivers. Quasi complimentary setup. Sounded great. I bet it still going strong.

 

[laatsch55]

I have a pair of Kornerhorns and a 400 is fine for daily work....but I can clip it if I get rowdy.....then the 700 comes out...

 

[62vauxhall]

Yes I do recall it Gary. We put a updated rev c board in it with some tested mj15024 drivers. Quasi complimentary setup. Sounded great. I bet it still going strong.

Haven't benn doing much listening to anything but yes, it's going good. Still think about putting in speaker protection from time to time.

 

[grapplesaw]

Haven't benn doing much listening to anything but yes, it's going good. Still think about putting in speaker protection from time to time.

Have to agree with you Gary. I think the first thing anyone should do after getting there amp up and running is put in one of Don‘s DCP boards.

 

[Phase Linear Phanatic]

I guess this is a pool I can actually wade in. Like you, I also consider myself a novice. But I was told by everyone here “If you know which side of the soldering iron to hold; you can White Oak a Phase Linear”. I said “The shiny side right?” so the joke’s on them! But seriously; I would agree with those here who say go all the way! I know a lot of people tell you to forget the 400 and get a 700B, and honestly it’s like that old Monty Python bit SPAM. They all say you need to have that 700B but guess what? You may just not want it! Some people just want their trusty 400 brought to a new pedestal. I also have been told the 400 isn’t as harsh on your ears as a 700 can be. And it’s PLENTY of power. More than you’ll really need. If you can solder well, and know how to read directions thoroughly, then you can save a lot of money and do it yourself. That’s what I did. Just read, read, read a lot on the forum here of others who did their 400 upgrades. And explore the White Oak website. Then ask the right questions here during the build. You’ll find the guys here will be happy to help you. And I’d tell you $850+ and the pride you feel after doing the job yourself and the sound you get when it’s all done; you’ll never go back! Don’t let the naysaysers get ya down. I’ve read a lot of pooping on doing the full-monty on the 400 over the years here, and what it would cost you to buy the core 700, the upgrade parts for a 700, and then pay a guy to do it FOR you could put you well over $2k. I mean have you seen what fleabay going rate is for a core 700B these days? And that’s you paying for 45+ yr old parts you’re just gonna rip out anyway.

I say, you have the PL400 already so half the battle is won. Read a LOT, and consider doing the work yourself. You’ll find the documentation Joe provides is so good, you will feel confidant you can do the job right. I felt uneasy in the beginning too, but once you get in there and see what’s what, it all starts to make sense.

That’s my two pennies also. I hope you go for it!

 

[MarkWComer]

DCP circuit for the PL 400:

 

[Vynuladikt]

I bought a 400 that already had the REV A White Oak control board installed, the rest is stock. It really kicked my other stock 400's to the curb. Best sounding power amp I have. I just got a 700B and the WOPL kit to convert it. I can't wait to have them both running in a 4 channel setup with all ESS speakers. 2 AMT D's rear and 2 Rock monitors front.
As stated earlier, if it's for your personal use and you aren't planning on trying to sell it, go for it. You won't be sorry.

 

[laatsch55]

ESS AMT's....coolness!!

 

[Vynuladikt]

ESS AMT's....coolness!!

My favorite so far are the Rock Monitors. They continue to amaze me. The better the source and amplification, the better they get. I don't know if they will ever be the weak link. If so I hate to think what it would cost to find better than them. Found my first pair of ESS speakers at a rummage sale. Bought them for the great walnut cabinets for $30. They were the Tempest LS4 towers with the "power ring" Tried them out before gutting them and fell in love the sound. Re-foamed and rebuilt the crossovers. Fell down the rabbit hole. Now have numerous pairs of various models throughout the place. Have built some customs with ESS drivers. Funny how many people when they first hear them, stand there in awe listening and then ask what they are.

 

[laatsch55]

Heard a pair YEARS ago and I thought they sounded great..

 

[wattsabundant]

I boughtg a pair of ESS AMT1A back in the 80's off of Audiomart. Had a stock 400 (there were no mods then). College roomies melted a few diaphragms. Switched to JBL4311's. About 10 years ago I found a pair of 1a's at a thrift store for $50. Couldn't get them out of there fast enough. Had to refoam the woofer and radiators. Got stupid one Saturday with Ozzie and roasted a diaphragm. Bought diaphragms at Parts Express. Picked up JBL4412's in the mean time and the ESS's are still waiting for diaphragms to be installed.

Several years ago I was in Kansas City on business. Looked up Echowars (Audiokarma). He had a home brew 3 way system with the Heils on top. I'd love to salvage my Heils and put them in a 3 way. Just don't care to do the design.

 

[wattsabundant]

DCP circuit for the PL 400:

Since Mark did the video I started including standoffs for the relay board to avoid clearance issues when the back planes are installed. Standoffs are optional for stock amps. I now use keps nuts which have the lock washer installed on it. As many of you know, the relay board mounts on the output binding posts which avoids drilling the chassis.

 

[MarkWComer]

Since Mark did the video I started including standoffs for the relay board to avoid clearance issues when the back planes are installed. Standoffs are optional for stock amps. I now use keps nuts which have the lock washer installed on it. As many of you know, the relay board mounts on the output binding posts which avoids drilling the chassis.

140906: video from Sept. 6, 2014. Lots of water under the bridge since then!

Agree- clearance is a bit tight there. The standoffs were included with the DCP kit for the 700, much better fit. 4-40 thread, correct? Since I want the “cylon” kit for the 400, will visit the hardware store for a set. A few other changes on the 400, since it will be opened again, may as well get everything done.

 

[Vynuladikt]

I boughtg a pair of ESS AMT1A back in the 80's off of Audiomart. Had a stock 400 (there were no mods then). College roomies melted a few diaphragms. Switched to JBL4311's. About 10 years ago I found a pair of 1a's at a thrift store for $50. Couldn't get them out of there fast enough. Had to refoam the woofer and radiators. Got stupid one Saturday with Ozzie and roasted a diaphragm. Bought diaphragms at Parts Express. Picked up JBL4412's in the mean time and the ESS's are still waiting for diaphragms to be installed.

Several years ago I was in Kansas City on business. Looked up Echowars (Audiokarma). He had a home brew 3 way system with the Heils on top. I'd love to salvage my Heils and put them in a 3 way. Just don't care to do the design.

$50 for AMTs is a steal. Changing diaphragms is really pretty easy. I've toasted a couple diaphragms myself while tailgating with the crew. Attributed it to a mixture of crappy MP3s from my son's I-phone and of course there could have been some alcohol involved.
I think I've seen a pic of Echowars' build. Looked impressive. I use the same handle at AK as here. I've considered doing an open baffle with a Heil just for kicks, but I always have too many other projects going.

 

[Deano452]

What are the recommended mods and where does a guy in Australia go about getting them , I believe a) Dc Blocking , b) upgrading caps c) outputs d) driver boards ? Is that correct ?

 

[MarkWComer]

What are the recommended mods and where does a guy in Australia go about getting them , I believe a) Dc Blocking , b) upgrading caps c) outputs d) driver boards ? Is that correct ?

We recommend all of them, of course! The DCP circuit is prime- protect your speakers above all else. The driver circuit and backplanes should be considered “husband and wife,” though you can do the driver without messing with the backwall and revise it later. Is this a Series Two? The LED display is eye candy, but really nice eye candy.

I believe both Watts Abundant and White Oak ship to Australia.
http://www.wattsabundant.com/id24.html
https://www.whiteoakaudio.com/estore.aspx

EDIT: when ordering from White Oak, be sure to order the wiring kit and Phoenix connector options. You WILL need them.

 

[Gepetto]