Tonearms

[ksrigg]

I have an early SME 3009 Series II coming to me. I am going to be using Audio Technica AT120E, AT130E and AT150MLX, as well as Ortofon 2M Red and Blue with it. I still haven't decided on ponying up for the JICO SAS for the Shure M97xE....nor have I started down the road on the MC journey. I have been looking at the Denon DL-103R and the DL-110. If I go that route, I probably would go with the 103R, but then I'll need an SUT as well...and that is a whole nuther can 'o worms...

Any body else been down the road, and want to steer me clear of any common mistakes, or direct me to stay on the MM path?

 

[Gepetto]

I have an early SME 3009 Series II coming to me. I am going to be using Audio Technica AT120E, AT130E and AT150MLX, as well as Ortofon 2M Red and Blue with it. I still haven't decided on ponying up for the JICO SAS for the Shure M97xE....nor have I started down the road on the MC journey. I have been looking at the Denon DL-103R and the DL-110. If I go that route, I probably would go with the 103R, but then I'll need an SUT as well...and that is a whole nuther can 'o worms...Any body else been down the road, and want to steer me clear of any common mistakes, or direct me to stay on the MM path?

Glad you found the 3009 you were searching for Sutton...I am sure you will like it. A fine and classic tone arm.

 

[ksrigg]

Thanks Joe. I do think it represents the best choice for the TD-124 given the fact that I want cueing and the ability to change carts out in a range of weights.

I love the look of the Saec 308 but it has lots of problems that make it pretty much a non-contender.

I really am enjoying listening to my old record collection and hearing things I have never known were there. I thought I had pretty good systems over the years, but I guess not as good as I thought.

I love the Audio Technica carts...they are way underrated. I have been listening to the AT120E and the AT130E and the AT150mlx hasn't arrived yet. The Audio Technicas are just right. Nothing compressed, nothing lacking. Just crystal clear.. I think I am in for a real treat when it gets here.

I also love the Ortofon 2M Red, as the Blue has not arrived either. The Red is a nice cart. It really sounds good and surface noise is minimized with the cart, but I feel it is a little thick in the mid range..

The Shure M97xe is very good also, but very veiled sounding. The treble is just extremely limited..I think it does have great potential with a Jico SAS, and I think I will order one in a few months.

I think, overall the finest cartridge I have now is the AT-120E (the 130E is a little worn I think)...It is not treble heavy....it is just so accurate, and just reproduces what is on the LP. I can't wait to hear what the AT150mlx and the Ortofon Blue bring to the table....(pun intended)

I didn't mean for this to turn into a cartridge review.....Sorry....

 

[laatsch55]

Sorry??? For what?? Off topic???



THAT'S FUNNY!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[8991XJ]

Let's see, we had a thread about selecting a tonearm and the OP accomplished his goal and picked up an unknown 3009. A pic will tell us all about it, seeing the wight combination and such to determine exactly which of the 25 or so SME 3009 models we are talking about.

Now with the arm, on its way or arrived and set up and playing the OPs cartridges, we have him talking about the sonic difference. Well isn't that grand, thread-jacking his very own thread. I'm very happy he is doing that. ksrigg has a few nice cartridges and is getting a really nice MM for the arm and should be a great match to the arm.

But I'm interested in the sonic differences between the 2M styli, red and blue. The blue is a nude elliptical and the red is just an elliptical, probably bonded. Curious how these sound different.

As far as the SAS for the shure, that is the right stylus for that cartridge and it should be a good match to the arm, also. I just don't think it is in the performance category of the AT-150.

Since it has been brought up, the matching of cartridge to the arm, when you know the effective mass of the arm, something you can increase but not really decrease easily, you can select more cartridges, styli that will work best with the arm. I don't know if there are a lot of MC cartridges that work well with the lower mass arms. There are some. Selecting correctly will help.

 

[ksrigg]

I finally received the arm yesterday, and got it installed on the table last night. I am rotating through the carts I have already mounted to headshells, and the Shure/ Jico SAS is on the arm in the picture. The Audio Technica AT120E sounds pretty fabulous. I still have not mounted the AT150MLX or the 2M Blue. The arm has really firmed up the sound on my table...for sure....and oddly, it has quietened the sound...or spurious stuff anyway. I love the arm, and am anxious to find out exactly which version of the 3009 it is...

I really am partial to the Audio Technica cartridges...and think the 120E is a real sleeper...I have grown a little tired of the 2M Red, as it does not track nearly as well as my other carts, and I think is somewhat stilted in it's frequency response...just a little too unpredictable..I know I'll like the Blue better, and know that Ortofon knows how to make a great cartridge. It must be the bonded stylus. I think I'm an absolute fan of nudity...and it is kinda weird, I thought the SAS was the stuff, until I mounted it on this arm. Now I like the AT120E better. I am confident the 150MLX will be my favorite once mounted..

 

[Gepetto]

I finally received the arm yesterday, and got it installed on the table last night. I am rotating through the carts I have already mounted to headshells, and the Shure/ Jico SAS is on the arm in the picture. The Audio Technica AT120E sounds pretty fabulous. I still have not mounted the AT150MLX or the 2M Blue. The arm has really firmed up the sound on my table...for sure....and oddly, it has quietened the sound...or spurious stuff anyway. I love the arm, and am anxious to find out exactly which version of the 3009 it is...

I really am partial to the Audio Technica cartridges...and think the 120E is a real sleeper...I have grown a little tired of the 2M Red, as it does not track nearly as well as my other carts, and I think is somewhat stilted in it's frequency response...just a little too unpredictable..I know I'll like the Blue better, and know that Ortofon knows how to make a great cartridge. It must be the bonded stylus. I think I'm an absolute fan of nudity...and it is kinda weird, I thought the SAS was the stuff, until I mounted it on this arm. Now I like the AT120E better. I am confident the 150MLX will be my favorite once mounted..

Beautiful table there Sutton. Arm looks right at home...

 

[NavLinear]

Beautiful table there Sutton. Arm looks right at home...

Agreed - that is a sweet looking TT.

I think I'm an absolute fan of nudity...and it is kinda weird until I mounted it

Wow - my sentiments exactly.

 

[orange]

Hey, you're gonna overvoltage Navo's regulator.

 

[8991XJ]

This appears to me to be an SME 3009 Series II

Let me break that down for you.
Manufacturer SME
Model 3009
Version Series II
Update None,
.

I'm looking through your list of cartridges and see that you do like the ATs. Is it the upper midrange lower high end bump that you like or is this something that you want to try to tame? Adjustments to the cartridge loading can tame this a bit. Other than the AT 150, the rest are just regular cartridges and with the speakers in your avatar and that fine turntable it might be time to explore what other cartridges might bring to the party.

Info on the arm is available here: http://www.analogue-classics.com/html/sme_3009___3012.html

Being the tonearm with the most information available on the web you should be able to find the answer to any possible question you might have. Manuals, templates, parts lists and such are all floating on the web. Nice arm. enjoy.

 

[ksrigg]

I'm glad that Nav picked up that tidbit I left for him. I really thought it might provoke a picture...but I guess not. I do love the turntable, and did mount the 2M Blue last night, and she sounds great right out of the package. I am really liking the fact that the sibilance I found hard to deal with in the Red, is more subdued in the Blue, and to me it appeared that the soundstage got MUCH LARGER with the Blue as well. I really love it so for, but I am only one or two albums in on it right now. I am still getting my nerve up to mount the AT150MLX as I know it is the best cartridge I have bought, and loving the Audio Technica line, I know I will instantly fall in love with it, and probably not want to hear any of the other cartridges again.

The arm really makes a huge difference in sound. Coming from the old manual arm (which was a freebie with the table) to the SME, I notice much more solid sound. It is hard to describe, but it is just right...and there is flexibility with it, so you can add weights to make it work with virtually any cartridge. I got the entire setup from Greg Metz at Classic Thorens dot com..He totally rebuilds Thorens turntables and really knows them well... Ultimately I know I still have a way to go to get the table where it needs to be...a new plinth, new mushrooms, but this is by far the nicest table I have ever owned. I wish I had bought it in the 70's instead of the more modern looking Luxman I bought...I remember thinking....how ugly it looked and turning my nose up. I still have the Lux, but it quit working in about 1985....about the time I bought my first Sony CDP. Oh well....I''ll take some more pictures of the arm...........if anyone wants to see more pics..

 

[8991XJ]

Which Luxman table? Love the looks of some of the top units in their line and the others do look nice.

Be nice to see more pics of the arm.

Was that Thorens available when you bought the Luxman? The 125 came out in 1970 ending the availability of the 124.

 

[ksrigg]

I'm not sure of the date, but I remember looking at Watkins Stereo in Kingsport, TN and they carried Thorens, and at Mr. Toad's Stereo in Johnson City and they carried Lux. I ended up buying the Luxman PD-277. I loved it and used it until the CD player hit the shelves. I got my hands on the first one I could find, oddly at a Lowe's store. It is a Sony and I still own it today.

I remember looking at the Thorens in the 70's and thinking they were butt ugly...and the Lux looked so sleek and sexy. Had to have it. It worked well until about 84 or so...whenever CDPs were introduced. The Lux still had an AT130E on it when I dug it out a few years ago. The problem with the Lux is the speed. It just flies and I don't know what to do to try to fix it. It is in beautiful condition.. It does have a Micro Seiki arm..

 

[8991XJ]

Shoulda driven to Knoxville to buy that Luxman, I would have sold you one that would be still working today!!

I would think the guys on the Luxman Yahoo Group wold know about this issue and if it is repairable. First thought is speed controls getting dirty but that is usually an unsteady speed not a max velocity issue. Chip, caps, I don't really know.

Now that I see the counterweight and the stub part of the cartridge tracking force weight, your unit is the 3009 Series II, not improved. This gives you a 12.5 effective mass and much closer to getting the best from a moving coil cartridge. Still low for some but better than being below 10 grams.

 

[Gepetto]

I'm not sure of the date, but I remember looking at Watkins Stereo in Kingsport, TN and they carried Thorens, and at Mr. Toad's Stereo in Johnson City and they carried Lux. I ended up buying the Luxman PD-277. I loved it and used it until the CD player hit the shelves. I got my hands on the first one I could find, oddly at a Lowe's store. It is a Sony and I still own it today.

I remember looking at the Thorens in the 70's and thinking they were butt ugly...and the Lux looked so sleek and sexy. Had to have it. It worked well until about 84 or so...whenever CDPs were introduced. The Lux still had an AT130E on it when I dug it out a few years ago. The problem with the Lux is the speed. It just flies and I don't know what to do to try to fix it. It is in beautiful condition.. It does have a Micro Seiki arm..

Butt ugly??? The 124 is the epitome of pure retro beauty. Thorens did everything right with the looks of that table, including the industrial strength that it has.

 

[laatsch55]

And the Thorens is still going strong......not so with the Lux....

 

[laatsch55]

Sutton, I see you have a Grant Fidelity buffer...do you use it? I have the one Larrt gave me and am thinking when I get my turntable I'll use it in conjunction with the Acurus pre....

 

[ksrigg]

It is a Yaqin MS-12B tube preamp and phono stage. I'm using it just for the phono stage. I bought it from China, and then had all the mods done to work out all the bugs they had...I really like it, but that is why I asked you about the phono stage in the PL 3300...I want to try it and see if it can better the Yaqin...I can't stop listening to vinyl long enough to change out preamps..

I'd love to get the Luxman working, if only to sell it. It is such a good looking table, and if I had known you sold them I probably would have driven to Knoxville. I was big buds with the folks at Toad's. I bought a ton of stuff from them over the years, including my first Phase Linear...400 and 4000... But I would love to get the Lux working. I have a daughter who is getting into vinyl, and I'd love to pass it to her..

And yeah, when I was 20, I thought the Throens was ugly...but now, I think it is a thing of beauty...weird how your perspective and tastes change..

 

[laatsch55]

So did Yaqin build them for Grant?? They look identical...

 

[Fishoz]

Sutton, I see you have a Grant Fidelity buffer...do you use it? I have the one Larrt gave me and am thinking when I get my turntable I'll use it in conjunction with the Acurus pre....

Lee, how does that work? Acurus has no phono. Does the Acurus run through the GF or vice versa?