Ron's Carv M1.5T Recap

Gepetto

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
May 15, 2011
Messages
14,091
Location
Sterling, MA
Tagline
Old 'Arn Enthusiast
#21
Joe, on the MJ21196 data sheet it lists Vceo at 250, Vcbo at 400, Vbeo at 400 volts. What rating represents the total swing of 250 volts for the hi side B+,B- rails??
Hi Lee
The Vceo is the most critical parameter and represents the maximum collector to emitter voltage on the device when the base is open. In practice the base is not open in circuit so the Vcex parameter comes into play. The 21196 is specified to withstand 400V from collector to emitter when the base emitter junction is biased at -1.5V (base is lower than emitter). The PL700s you have been experimenting with have about 106 volts on the B+ and B- rails. So this is a potential of 212V that you could see from collector to emitter. You are within the static ratings.


Those are all static withstand voltages with no collector current flowing for the device, in application the devices are not static. Therefore the SOA becomes the most important parameter now that you have satisfied the basic static parameters. This is the chart in Fig 13. You will see that at 212V, the MJ21196 will survive 1A collector current for 250msec before destruction sets in (this is equivalent to a half sine wave 2 Hz signal). This is impractical. When you see 212V across the transistors, it is at the peak point of the signal and the transistor is pulling the load from the peak to the other peak so in reality you will never see that type of time-current product.

Hopefully this helps and does not confuse further.
 

Gepetto

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
May 15, 2011
Messages
14,091
Location
Sterling, MA
Tagline
Old 'Arn Enthusiast
#23
So, at 5 amps collector current there is no SOA left??
If you are talking about the PL700 with 5 devices in parallel then there is no SOA left IF you exceed 5A total for more than 250msec with 212V across the collector emitter junction. This is an instantaneous peak of 1060W for a quarter second Lee. Very unlikely even if driving heavily capacitive loads. An inductive load is easier to drive because when the current turns around, flyback will assist you in collapsing the Vce which quickly pushes the SOA parameters back into the easy range.

The paralleled MJ21196 devices are quite a potent output stage. A hugely increased SOA capability than the original PL909 output stages.
 
Last edited:

laatsch55

Administrator,
Staff member
Joined
Jan 14, 2011
Messages
74,987
Location
Gillette, Wyo.
Tagline
Halfbiass...Electron Herder and Backass Woof
#25
Joe, this is where I hit the proverbial wall. How does the DC amplify the AC?? Does the DC give up electrons to the AC, and with AC and DC running around together why doesn't it just blow the F&^% UP??
 

Gepetto

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
May 15, 2011
Messages
14,091
Location
Sterling, MA
Tagline
Old 'Arn Enthusiast
#26
I agree Joe, but in that 1.5t with 125+/- rails that's really pushing it.
If you study the circuit carefully Lee, the 125V power supply cuts out when you are swung to the opposite rail and the max that you will ever see on a single device is 50V + 125V = 175V due to the switch mode nature of that amp.

It is a complicated circuit to follow. They used the same technique in the Sunfire gear to keep the package small and the heat dissipation down. That was before full switch mode class E amps became prevalent.
 

Gepetto

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
May 15, 2011
Messages
14,091
Location
Sterling, MA
Tagline
Old 'Arn Enthusiast
#27
Joe, this is where I hit the proverbial wall. How does the DC amplify the AC?? Does the DC give up electrons to the AC, and with AC and DC running around together why doesn't it just blow the F&^% UP??
We know that sometimes happens Lee :)

Hitting the hay. Made good progress on the 700 BP tonight. Cleared a lot of the decks that were in my way prior.
 

laatsch55

Administrator,
Staff member
Joined
Jan 14, 2011
Messages
74,987
Location
Gillette, Wyo.
Tagline
Halfbiass...Electron Herder and Backass Woof
#29
We know that sometimes happens Lee :)

Hitting the hay. Made good progress on the 700 BP tonight. Cleared a lot of the decks that were in my way prior.
Coolness Joe. How far out are you on that project?? Got 5 "B"'s waiting.
 

Northwinds

Veteran and General Yakker
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
7,566
Location
Coventry, CT
Tagline
Fondler errrr... fan of all Nav's avatars
#30
Need some text with those pics there big guy..
They be simple homemade magnetic amps, the one on the left uses borax rectifiers instead of silicone rectifiers, the one on the right uses a 1k pot and 12v transformers. A 9v battery is utilized for both

I was trying to wrap my head around magnetic amps and how they work. Apparently the Carver is not a true mag amp, it just
uses unusual power supply circuits?

Here is the article, interesting and looks like you can make them out of your parts bin for next to nothing

http://www.sparkbangbuzz.com/mag-amp/mag-amp.htm
 
Last edited:

Northwinds

Veteran and General Yakker
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
7,566
Location
Coventry, CT
Tagline
Fondler errrr... fan of all Nav's avatars
#31
I agree with you Lee that the 1.5t is weak by comparison to the PL700 stage.
Can it be made better then Joe and what would it take? I want an amp I won't have to worry about. I just sent Jer money to cover all new outputs
 

laatsch55

Administrator,
Staff member
Joined
Jan 14, 2011
Messages
74,987
Location
Gillette, Wyo.
Tagline
Halfbiass...Electron Herder and Backass Woof
#35
I don't know man, 3 or 4 days after a guy says "We'll see how it goes" and no word yet?? Hmmmmm....
 

Northwinds

Veteran and General Yakker
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
7,566
Location
Coventry, CT
Tagline
Fondler errrr... fan of all Nav's avatars
#39
Chill Dude, just wanted to know if it blew or played.....
His :p did not show that he was laughing Lee LOL. I am hoping for more nudies showing the wierd layout of everything and how it works to make that much power in such a light package and yet manages to dissipate heat so well. While we are waiting maybe you can explain how these amps work and why the wierd layout? You guys amaze me how you can just look at a schematic and understand how something works

EDIT: You mentioned triac or something, what is that?
 
Last edited:
Top