PL 700 II Clair Bros Rising from the Ashes

Gepetto

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Hi Joe, thanks again. My old offset meters PL700 has a plate mounted on the capacitor terminals but this plate is aluminum. My issue is more of a buzz mixed with hum. I think I have quoted this before;

"Another source is a signal lead running parallel to a mains power lead. Although the conductors of mains leads are twisted, the twist is usually fairly basic, so balancing of the magnetic field is rather poor compared to the tight twist of Cat-5 communications cable for example. The magnetic coupling is poor, and the greatest problems are likely to be caused by capacitive coupling. Since this favours high frequency noise, the sound is completely different from an earth loop, and it's a good idea to try to familiarise yourself with the different sounds made by the various issues that may plague hi-fi setups. If signal cables and mains wiring must cross each other, ensure they cross at right angles, and if possible separate the two as far as practicable. Capacitive coupling can also be an issue with transformer windings, where mains noise is coupled through to the secondary by inter-winding capacitance, or from Y-Class caps from mains to chassis"

As my approach seems to trial and error, what are your thoughts on creating a new, much heavier ground buss between the caps and make all connections by way of lugs soldered to the wires and held together on a centre mounted 1/4-20 copper stud. This would allow temporary removal of the transformer, extending the secondary leads to eliminate/determine the stray flux issue.
I will double check asap, but I believe I had a buzz even with the inputs shorted on the control board.
Hi Peter, there are many loops inside the amp subjected to the stray flux field besides the resistor you tacked on the input pins There are wires running everywhere inside the amp, all susceptible. Buzz and hum are both artifacts of possible stray flux fields.

Wouldn't it be a much simpler and quicker experiment to see if a tape covered (to prevent accidental shorts) steel plate inserted between the transformer and remainder of the amp makes a difference at all? If it makes no difference, then you have ruled that out.
 

Peter S

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Hi Mark;
Thanks for checking, I have read any other thread that recommended grounding the PL chassis. Where did you tie your ground wire to the chassis? Do you have an IEC line cord? Is it possible to plug your amp in without the ground connected?
Thanks again, Peter
 

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Hi Mark;
Thanks for checking, I have read any other thread that recommended grounding the PL chassis. Where did you tie your ground wire to the chassis? Do you have an IEC line cord? Is it possible to plug your amp in without the ground connected?
Thanks again, Peter
I don't know of any PL amp converted to IEC as the chassis is already the ground right? I remember in other threads mentioning a star ground in the amp
 

Peter S

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Hi Joe;
Yes;
That will be the very next test, I will place an insulated steel plate, just between caps and the rest of the amp. ( I will listen and take measurements with the scope.)
Thanks for your patience. Please get in line behind my wife, to tell me that I have problems following direction!
 

Gepetto

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Hi Joe;
Yes;
That will be the very next test, I will place an insulated steel plate, just between caps and the rest of the amp. ( I will listen and take measurements with the scope.)
Thanks for your patience. Please get in line behind my wife, to tell me that I have problems following direction!
Make sure it is steel and attracted by a magnet Peter, aluminum will not do squat for containing magnetic fields.

Signed
The Wife :)
 

grapplesaw

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I put IEC sockets in my amps and pre amps when I am able to fit them in. Not one Of these has the IEC ground terminal wired to chassis. I do not know how to say it more clearly. I Do Not ground to mains supply.
 

mlucitt

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Hi Mark;
Thanks for checking, I have read any other thread that recommended grounding the PL chassis. Where did you tie your ground wire to the chassis? Do you have an IEC line cord? Is it possible to plug your amp in without the ground connected?
Thanks again, Peter
I don't have a photo of the power jack in my PL700B, but this is the power jack in my PL400, I tie the ground connection to bare metal inside the chassis with a star washer and a screw.
Power Jack.jpg
 

Peter S

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The steel angle had no effect on the hum/buzz. The ground wire that was connected to my IEC socket ( to the capacitor common buss ) is removed. When the amp chassis is free-floating (chassis about 62 VAC to neutral) and a 10 k resistors between pins 1 and 2 on the PL14_20; the hum/buzz increases as my finger approaches the resistors. Buzz also increases as my finger got within 1/4" or so of the op/amp IC's on the PL14_20.
This effect from my finger did not happen when I alligator clipped the chassis to the wall outlet ground. I assume the capacitive effect of the amp having 62 VAC compared to my finger causes hum. But should the PL14_20 be so sensitive to capacitive influences of is there a possible (wiring) issue?
 

Gepetto

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Hi Peter
Good, you ruled out the magnetic part. Have you alligator clipped that shield to the chassis ensuring that they are electrically connected? That will provide an electrostatic shield.

Also your finger is not near any sensitive circuitry when the amp is buttoned up. The front end of the amp is very high gain/wide bandwidth and very high impedance so it does not take much to amplify small signals (that is what amplifiers do). You are earth and the amp is floating with an AC signal on it. Every signal inside the amp has that common mode signal present on it. When you get near the circuitry with your finger, you create a capacitor to ground effect which creates real signal to the amp board.

Have you ever buttoned it all up so it has the faraday cage around it? Or has all your experimentation been open chassis like this?
 

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Gepetto

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Peter S

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Thanks J!m;
I may need a bigger oxy-acetylene torch to finish this amp project.

Hi Joe;
The angle was not electrically connected to the chassis. I just connected it and found no difference in hum/buzz. I actually first noticed the problem with the amp closed up in the listening room. Background noise in the workshop masked the issue initially.
 
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