My Father's Continuing Saga........

If there is sincere interest in reviving the amp then maybe the chassis layout should be revised. Have a look at the Crown DC300 for starters.
 
I am at my fathers right now and he is inquiring me about the WOPL. He wants to know what its going to cost him to make the 400 "sound better". And financially feasible to do so. He has stated he doesn't want to spend hundreds just to get an itsy bit of sound difference from the original parts to joes white oak parts. For him cost IS an item. Retirement on the way; budgeting and so on. So he has a desire for the ear altering sound only if its financially sound. I guess my take on his question could be perceived as "what specifically would it take to make this difference in sound happen "? Like just a driver board? Backplane boards AND a driver board? Bulk caps only if it affects sound..... No DC protect unless it truly affects sound etc. and the labor to do it??? He's concerned replacing all this will cost the price of just buying a new amp. So is white oaking a 400 strictly a game for you guys who have the money and the commitment to renew a classic, or is it a practical sound game changer for the money conscious? This is a good inquiry for him because he IS faced with four 8-fin 400's. Two are sitting there doing nothing. But all four already have joes light boards. I'd like to hear from some half conversion guys and some fully comp guys about the sound. And also the price. :-)
 
The sound is incredible. To get there---

Backplane boards--------------120.00
Driverboard---------------------180.00
MJ21196's, MJ 21195's---------75.00
Labor--10 Hs @ 30.00 Hr.-----300.00


That's as inexpensive as it get.
 
Just told him. He about keeled. So that's out. I'd say lets find out if I could convince him by finding someone who could lend one out for him to hear, but he said he doesn't want to even try when the revamping price surpasses that of buying a new amp. (Name it carver; rotel etc). So no go. :-( Nothing I can do. But thanks for the prompt response!
 
Dave, I could go on all night about the benefits, etc. It's not the same amp when you're done, just one of the worlds best............ Thorens 160MK III, Thresh hold T 3, a WADIA 870, and an Onkyo P3 are pretty sensitive to whatever come down the pike, they add almost nothing. The little 400 stood it's ground. Steve renamed Beauteast.He calls his 400 A White Oak Silver 400. It lacked for nothing today except for it's soundstage. There were other amps with better soundtage,but there weren't better sounding amps overall.
 
I don't disagree one bit. I am already convinced. Having had a non fully comp white oak 700B here. I think I will have to go about this differently. He has always been ok with the "he buys it, I install it thing". But the thing is I am spending 60 plus hours a week wiring automation control panels . I jus don't have the time to take on a complete tear down and rebuild. That's really what he needs. Nor do I trust myself on a knowledge level to dig any deeper into the guts of a phase linear than that of the driver board. Backplane's; bias adjustments, cap forming etc. etc..... I cannot do here. What I would have to do is buy the individual parts myself over time and when I have everything; get ahold of one of my dad's paperweight 8-fin 400's and send it all off to you. (After enlisting your help of course). This would be a project I'd financially have to take on and have it as a christmas gift this year.

his birthday is in march so its too soon to complete such a task, but it would make a great gift later. Besides ; these take time. Unless you've done a couple. Then I guess not. But right now he has a Teac reel to reel that's been getting hot and needs to be fixed. He says you could cook an egg on it and the fan IS running on it. So he has bigger concerns.
 
It would be possible to do it in stages. It's a fair amount of work, but it's possible to convert the amp to full comp without the new boards. As funds allow you add the driver board, then the back plane boards, then the relay board.
 
wattsabundant said:
It would be possible to do it in stages. It's a fair amount of work, but it's possible to convert the amp to full comp without the new boards. As funds allow you add the driver board, then the back plane boards, then the relay board.
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I thought I read somewhere here that the relays for the DCP boards are no longer stocked by mouser? Is that true? If so; what does that mean for those boards?
 
They are currently out of stock, they only had 8 left. They will re-order..
 
I am talking with Jerry about getting a fully comp version over to my dad. He LOVED his gifts Saturday for his birthday. I assembled Two amp racks for him; got him two PL400 wood cases he needed; a carver ad for fun, and brought over my 700B to show him what it looks like occupied. Also gave him a t-shirt with an analogue meter on it. He always says; "analogue forever!". So I thought he'd like that. Below is a half pic of what his system will be. I just pulled his two paperweight 400's to put in the rack. His other two are still hooked up so i couldn't put em in. But when he completes it within the next week or two; I'll post a final pic. I am hoping that a fully comp version will make him believe. He is still convinced the Carver M500t's sound better. And they very well may. Till he gets a fully comped WO PL. Then We'll see..........:evil4:

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Phase Linear Phanatic said:
I am talking with Jerry about getting a fully comp version over to my dad. He LOVED his gifts Saturday for his birthday. I assembled Two amp racks for him; got him two PL400 wood cases he needed; a carver ad for fun, and brought over my 700B to show him what it looks like occupied. Also gave him a t-shirt with an analogue meter on it. He always says; "analogue forever!". So I thought he'd like that. Below is a half pic of what his system will be. I just pulled his two paperweight 400's to put in the rack. His other two are still hooked up so i couldn't put em in. But when he completes it within the next week or two; I'll post a final pic. I am hoping that a fully comp version will make him believe. He is still convinced the Carver M500t's sound better. And they very well may. Till he gets a fully comped WO PL. Then We'll see..........:evil4:

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That is really beautiful Dave. Yeah let's get 'er going with shipping you the FC. Gotta go hunt for packing material...
 
You are a fine son, Dave! That framed original advertisement is also a jewel in the crown. Lots of horsepower on those shelves!

Nando.
 
SHelf looks nioce! Do you plan to run fans? Looks like no air circulation is possible
 
Thanks Nando. Back when Bob had hair right? I dig his threads man! Yeah, he spent 20 years of his life raising four children at a fine cost. Now that I am old enough to have a good education and a good job, this is the least I can do to pay him back.

He never runs it hard enough to need fans. He runs two pairs of Bozak Concert Grands, both Bi-amped by the PL400's. Four in total. And that stack IS completely open in the back. It's a wide front, but the back only has a 6" center-post. It's glass shelf all around and open on all sides. I have the same stack, but they are all 700B's. And yes I fan cool mine. My father will have both racks side by side when he is done and I shall provide a shot of that when I get it. As of now, he needs about 400 ft of speaker wire, due to where he wants to run the wires and the dual bi-amping. So I took care of at least the most expensive stuff. The project is more "do-able" now for him, and that's what made him light up.
 
jbeckva said:
That is really beautiful Dave. Yeah let's get 'er going with shipping you the FC. Gotta go hunt for packing material...
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Jerry; I am sending you a shipping carton stuffed with packing material. Paid for. That should cover the shipping materials. Look for a Rockwell Automation box. And ignore the AC drive. There isn't one. That sticker I couldn't pull off. So be on the look-out. Again; thank you for your offer! :-)

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Phase Linear Phanatic said:
Jerry; I am sending you a shipping carton stuffed with packing material. Paid for. That should cover the shipping materials. Look for a Rockwell Automation box. And ignore the AC drive. There isn't one. That sticker I couldn't pull off. So be on the look-out. Again; thank you for your offer! :-)
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U-haul sells a legal tote box that is perfect for shipping the amps. you line the box on all six sides with 1" foam insulation and the amp fits perfect inside. Removing rack handles and knobs helps the fit. A little extra packing around the transformer is all that is needed. I've never had an amp damaged when using the tote box.

The original relay used on the 400 board was a 15 amp (PCLH series) made by Tyco. They recently updated it and the price increased almost 400%. The Omron LY2-DC48 series is a 10 amp replacement and is less than $8. All of the usual vendors sell them.
 
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