Musings on Amplifier Damping Factor

Gepetto

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#1
Damping factor is VERY important for good driver control, especially bass drivers at low frequencies near their resonant points. Amps with low damping factor suffer from poorer bass response and control and generally what can be described as “flabby†bass rather than “punchy or well defined†bass. The bass drivers have much higher mass so it is more difficult to get them moving in synch with the electrical signal and more difficult to stop them and turn them around the other direction. They just have higher mass!

Damping factor is a dimensionless measurement that defines the output impedance of the power amplifier as a ratio of the speaker impedance it is driving. If the amplifier has a damping factor of 1000 into 8 ohms, that mean that the amplifier’s output impedance is 8/1000 or 0.008 ohms (8 milliohms!!) Likewise an amp with a damping factor of 10 will have an output impedance of 0.8 ohms (800 milliohms). The amp with the lowest output impedance is the stiffest and exhibits the highest damping factor.

You get high damping factor in an amp, generally speaking, when the amp has very large open loop gain and a large amount of global negative feedback. These are the hallmarks of the Phase Linear amplifier design.

I don’t know if this helps you understand damping factor.

Perhaps this analogy helps better.

Suppose you have a 1 pound ball attached to the end of a spring and your job is to accurately control the position of that ball.

In case 1, the spring is a slinky toy spring. This is the low damping factor situation. It will be nearly impossible for you to accurately control the ball position.
In case 2, the spring is the big, heavy duty spring on your automobile suspension. This is the high damping factor situation. It will be very easy to accurately control the ball position.

Some folks like the more mellow sound that low damping factor amps have, such as tube amps.

Some enjoy the detail that is offered by an high damping factor amp that is really in control of the speaker load that is attached to it.

It is very much a personal preference.
 

laatsch55

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Personal preference or not, some speakers simply demand high damping factors, the Ohm Model F's I had come to mind. At times they treated the Spec 2 like a redheaded stepchild....
 

kevin

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I would want a spring off a Mac truck... Yea.... That would be a leaf spring !.... Sorry..... I know you all were being serious ! But I was lost till ya put it like that !
 

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I have 60 watt Grommes 260 monoblock tube amps which I sometimes use to drive my woofers and a PLWO 1000 and a PLWO 500. I have done a comparison of SS vs Tube to drive woofers. There is no comparison, the SS control the woofers much better and the bass is a lot tighter and clean. Of the 2 Phase Linears I like the PLWO 500 the best. The tube bass is a lot looser and has a different sound. I like the SS to drive woofers. But when it comes to mids and tweeters I prefer tube hands down.
 

Pure_Brew

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I agree with tube top/SS bottom sound wise. Tubes are a more recent exploration for me but I find them to be less fatiguing given how and where I listen & other factors. However I find it amazing listening to full orchestral music at realistic volume levels with big speakers and SS amps. I have yet to try a nice tube pre/SS amp combo. Maybe someday.
 

Skratch

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What makes it more endearing? Do you find it tighter? Do the large power supply caps help in the bass damping department? Is higher capacitance better?

Doug
I drive an Altec Voice of the theater in parallel with my Soniphase SL6 for my low end. With around 5 watts on them they are over 110db, so the PLWO 500 is not even breaking a sweat. I have 16800uf caps in it which seem to help the low end. The PLWO 1000 has 22000uf caps in it and when I listen to it the bass doesn't to seem to be as good as the 500. I don't know why but that is my personal opinion
 

laatsch55

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I find the bass tighter on the Pig till 200 watts, then there is no comparison, the WOPL 1000 is the shit from that level on up. When the 1000 comes into it's own it sounds better than the Pig in it's own....
 

laatsch55

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I would want a spring off a Mac truck... Yea.... That would be a leaf spring !.... Sorry..... I know you all were being serious ! But I was lost till ya put it like that !


Kev.......LMOAO....
 

Gibsonian

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#10
I know it may sound like blasphemy on this site but I am currently using Crown CTS 3000 and 2000 amps with >3000 damping factor on my subs and midwoofs now (1500 and 1000 watts per channel!) and I now have the tightest bass that I have experienced with my system. Am using 6 ga wire to the subs to get as much out of the high damping factor as I can. Would like to go even bigger if I can find the right deal on wire. Little Cathy is now doing mid/tweet duties and they have never sounded sweeter. Been wanting to hear what she can do up there for sometime now, and I am liking it. If you can A) eliminate passive crossover components from your system, i.e. active crossover and B) Minimize wire resistance to drivers, the low damping factor can really help to shine up those bass notes, IME.
 

Gepetto

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I know it may sound like blasphemy on this site but I am currently using Crown CTS 3000 and 2000 amps with >3000 damping factor on my subs and midwoofs now (1500 and 1000 watts per channel!) and I now have the tightest bass that I have experienced with my system. Am using 6 ga wire to the subs to get as much out of the high damping factor as I can. Would like to go even bigger if I can find the right deal on wire. Little Cathy is now doing mid/tweet duties and they have never sounded sweeter. Been wanting to hear what she can do up there for sometime now, and I am liking it. If you can A) eliminate passive crossover components from your system, i.e. active crossover and B) Minimize wire resistance to drivers, the low damping factor can really help to shine up those bass notes, IME.
Why is that blasphemy for this group?

Agree that those milliohms in your wire connections add up.

And it is not just your bass notes that appreciate the direct connection difference.
 

laatsch55

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I'll second that. Scott, your contributions are always insightful, it was nice to hear what you are doing now. What precisely is your speaker system now?? I have some #2 , 4-conductor SO cord with many, many strands. How much footage ya need there lad??
 

Gibsonian

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Speaker system now are mains: HPM 100 cabinets populated with 1 - 12" Eminence Definimax driver, 1 - DSS-9 boron cone midrange, 1 - Morel CAT-308 tweeter, and the original HPM supertweet. Subs are homemade sealed cabinets with the Dayton Titanic 15" sub drivers. The subs are supplied power by the CTS3000 directly connected, the Definimax is supplied power by the CTS2000 connected direct, the rest of the drivers are supplied power by Cathy, with the midrange driver connected direct and the tweet and supertweet still having some passive components in there for cross (my electronic crossover is only a 3 way) For the wire I would need approximately 33 ft of speaker wire to do both sides (subs). How much you got?
 

Gibsonian

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Since it's 2 or 4 ga, 4 conductor (do I have that right?), that would be a lot of copper and some very low resistance. I would think one piece at about 37 ft would do. My left/right runs are uneven but total is about 37 ft. I would use two wires for positive, two wires for negative in this scenario, and would probably crimp or solder a ~10 ga short pigtail on the end so I can connect it to amp/speaker terminals. You got a pic of this fat stuff?
 

laatsch55

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Yeah, I'll get some today Scott. Now I have SO 4 conductor from # 2 all the way to #12. On the # 2 I do not have a 37' piece. I have a 10-11 ft of 4 conductor. On the # 4 I have a 50 piece of 4 conductor. On the smaller stuff I have a lot.
 
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