David's Phase Linear 700B Thread

FredR

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It really does look good. My cave always seems to be in a state of flux. A tornado would probably neaten things up. I would glady White Oak your stuff but man.....why don't YOU do it. You seem more than capable....your wiring at work is impeccable (there's that word again Joe)....what do you think you can not do?
Dave, it may seem counter-intuitive but I find bare metal conversions easier than trying to retrofit Joe's stuff into the the old stuff. Full conversions are all Joe's stuff so its all made to fit together and work together right from the start. Only real barrier is time. You'll need to set aside 3 or 4 weekends for each amp to do it right. See my 700B build thread for more info. The best part is it's fun! Fred.
 
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gadget73

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having done retrofit work in other things before, I have to agree that its usually easier to start with an empty box vs working around a bunch of stuff one piece at a time. I haven't converted my PL, but its something of a mess inside in stock form.
 
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I totally agree Fred. I don't see it as counter-intuitive at all. On the contrary; like I mentioned......if I am going to white oak, its gonna be stripped back to nothing but a chassis and transformer. I don't do halvsies on anything. (As if you couldn't tell from the pics.) LOL. Big-ass speaks, and multiple amps is the name of the game in dave-ville. And if i'm doing a conversion; it's go big or go home too. So no worries there? :)

I can technically afford to be without one or two amps at a time, as mentioned earlier, out of the four PL700B's here; one out of the rack will not hurt a my standard bi-amped system. Till I get the other two big ass speaks; two are just there lookin peeeeerdy.

I guess I need to gather the cash for the resources, then the time for a tear down and re-build. Add in extra time for my lack of experience, and I'd say your month of weekends is more like two months for ME. Assuming I CAN spend every weekend on one amp. And to do it to four? That's a year long venture friend. Vacation time is wiser. I will try to take it next year and center my time around it. Or again........if work dis-allows me to; I'll want to have it done here with Phoenix. Turn-around time and gratification from that time (receiving a white-oaked PL I can play with faster), is much better there! :) Kudos on being lucky to have one in your possession. My wife ALREADY thinks I'm crazy too. Re-building four PL700B's would have her head spinning and spitting pea soup. :laughing7:
 
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Looks about like the power transformers I have at work too, and we have 4 of them I think. The main disconnect in the MCC cabinet looks about like that too. Our MCC is probably about 7 feet tall by 18 or so feet long and thats small in the industrial world. Electricity is no big deal, just shut it off, lock it out, and its no problem. I work with radiation too. Dangerous things are only dangerous if you don't use the right precautions. Done right, its safer than driving.
Yeah I respect you guys who deal with that and bigger all day long. Dangerous stuff. My world is low voltage and usually highest we wire is 3-phase 480V. But we never see transformers like 300KVA! Doesn't it take like 1/2 an amp or smaller to kill a person?! I can't imagine being that close to power that big. Even with proper PPE, call me Mr. Mc klutz. I'd probably get myself fried looking at a transformer sideways and what not.

Just kidding. But electrical is really a cool world. I think it's great we have so many smart minds on phoenix who's backgrounds vary in this field!
 

gadget73

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480 3 phase is the most I fool with too. I want to say our transformers are 30 or 50 kva. Its nothing truly huge like some guys deal with. The biggest motor we've got in the place is a single 30 hp, most of them are 1.5 hp. The ones that go bad are the 1.5 hp jobbers and that purely due to their location.
 

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I totally agree Fred. I don't see it as counter-intuitive at all. On the contrary; like I mentioned......if I am going to white oak, its gonna be stripped back to nothing but a chassis and transformer. I don't do halvsies on anything. (As if you couldn't tell from the pics.) LOL. Big-ass speaks, and multiple amps is the name of the game in dave-ville. And if i'm doing a conversion; it's go big or go home too. So no worries there? :)

I can technically afford to be without one or two amps at a time, as mentioned earlier, out of the four PL700B's here; one out of the rack will not hurt a my standard bi-amped system. Till I get the other two big ass speaks; two are just there lookin peeeeerdy.

I guess I need to gather the cash for the resources, then the time for a tear down and re-build. Add in extra time for my lack of experience, and I'd say your month of weekends is more like two months for ME. Assuming I CAN spend every weekend on one amp. And to do it to four? That's a year long venture friend. Vacation time is wiser. I will try to take it next year and center my time around it. Or again........if work dis-allows me to; I'll want to have it done here with Phoenix. Turn-around time and gratification from that time (receiving a white-oaked PL I can play with faster), is much better there! :) Kudos on being lucky to have one in your possession. My wife ALREADY thinks I'm crazy too. Re-building four PL700B's would have her head spinning and spitting pea soup. :laughing7:
You can do it, Dave. It's not that hard, and if you know which end of the soldering iron to hold onto, we can help you through it here. Joe's kits are VERY well done, and all the documentation is online. Shoot, if ya get in big trouble you could load it up in your trunk and drive up to Michigan. I'll help you out, I haven't forgotten your assistance in buying my second PL700B down there in St. Louis! Do it, brother!
 

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Echoing the sentiment, you can do it. The backplanes themselves are the best, and definitely do take a LOT of the guessing out of the job.

Take your time, and make sure if your peepers (eyes) aren't that good you do EVERYTHING with a magnifier.. best 40 buck investment I made besides the solder/desolder station. You will also need different tips on the iron.. a single chisel tip is "good" at either large or small work, but only "good" enough. Follow Joe's docs step by step..

And don't forget that lead out from the star ground to the left top hardware point.. lol. (wink):toothy5:
 
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You can do it, Dave. It's not that hard, and if you know which end of the soldering iron to hold onto, we can help you through it here. Joe's kits are VERY well done, and all the documentation is online. Shoot, if ya get in big trouble you could load it up in your trunk and drive up to Michigan. I'll help you out, I haven't forgotten your assistance in buying my second PL700B down there in St. Louis! Do it, brother!
Ummmmmmmm........It's the THIN end right? :toothy5:
 
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Echoing the sentiment, you can do it. The backplanes themselves are the best, and definitely do take a LOT of the guessing out of the job.

Take your time, and make sure if your peepers (eyes) aren't that good you do EVERYTHING with a magnifier.. best 40 buck investment I made besides the solder/desolder station. You will also need different tips on the iron.. a single chisel tip is "good" at either large or small work, but only "good" enough. Follow Joe's docs step by step..

And don't forget that lead out from the star ground to the left top hardware point.. lol. (wink):toothy5:
Yeah Jer. I can't believe we went thru all that for a missing wire. I learned from that one. I'm in. I'm sure I can do it. I will set aside the time next year to start on my first one. I now have all the equipment I'll ever need. So it's no longer a question of IF. Now it's just WHEN. :wink:
 

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Okay. So I have a question. I hooked up the third PL700B today and it does indeed work. Now the question is...........can I use it in conjunction with another receiver/amp?

What I want to do is this: I want to use the multi-channel amp for my movies, and the PL for strictly 2-channel hi-fi. How my set up is, is that I have the OPPO BDP-105, hooked up both analog to the PL, and HDMI to the surround receiver. I can use the volume up/down on the oppo as a pre. So its easy enough. The iffiy-ness I have, is there are two sets of binding posts on the speakers. And those sets have little gold strips that bridge both sets together. Positive to positive and negative to negative, on the outside. I ohmed them out and found when I take OFF the gold terminal strips, there is NO continuity between the two sets of speaker binding posts. Fair enough. I figured "PL in one set, surround in the other." However, I found without the bridges in place, the speakers did not work properly or at all. So I put them back. All was well. BUT, that begs the question; if I hook both amps to the speakers with the bridges there; am I causing a back-feed of amplified line voltage from the PL Amp at the speaker posts, then back into the surround receiver? Seems to me it's like running an amps out, to another amps outs. Both trying to pass amplified signal at the same time, or one pushing it into the other. Is this a cause for concern? Or not at all. OR..............am I ok as long as ONE of the amps is only on at a time? I may have asked this question before, but forgot when...........:shock:

Below I just finished quickly assembling the small area upstairs for where the lady will be enjoying her netflix. I still have some wire routing left to do. But notice the PL amp and the surround amp above it. i want these guys to play nice and share the speakers together.

View attachment 14060
You can do this with the preamp I use, a Parasound Halo P5. It has a home theater bypass:
http://www.parasound.com/halo/p5.php
You need an AVR with line level outputs or a separate pre/processor and amp. P5 manual attached.
Fred
 

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laatsch55

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You better find out where those wire a go in the speakes. You DO NOT want the outputs of one amp paralleled with another amp!!
 

FredR

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You better find out where those wire a go in the speakes. You DO NOT want the outputs of one amp paralleled with another amp!!
No outputs paralleled. Check out the manual. Pretty slick. All done at the input level.
 

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Marie Laveux will go WHOOOOOOOOOOOO....

another amp done gone!

So don't be doing that.
 

FredR

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Another cool aspect of the bypass is you still get to use your WOPL on front left/right.
 
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No need. All that PL fire power you see in the pics is strictly part of a 2-channel only set-up. The carver home theater surround system upstairs is being used in conjunction with an Arcam AVR 400 Pre/integrated amp. Who's integrated amp I am already bypassing using the line-level pre-outs to go to my carver amps for the fronts and the surrounds. The center channel only being driven by the integrated amp on the arcam. The powered sub on its own amp using a line level sub out as well. The idea for that system is to incorporate the Carver Tx-11a tuner; by using the axillary Input on the arcam and selecting that aux source when I want to use the tuner. Ergo, bypassing the integrated tuner as well on the arcam. Seems I strictly wanted carver separates after a long personal debate. But the processor power of the arcam does its duty on the surround sound aspect. And that's what I wanted. I just wanted the power, and the sources to be non-integrated separates. And that's not a problem either as I have a harmony remote that sends out the codes to the proper devices when wanting to hear the radio, or watch dvd, or tv etc......

Due to the older nature of the carver amps and gear; there is no 12 volt trigger or remote on. So what I did was take the 12volt trigger source output on the arcam; and send it to the trigger IN on the power center; which in turn has switched AC outputs. Those turn on when the arcam turns the power center on; thereby sending power to the carver amps, as long as the power button is depressed on the front panels of the amps of course. Everything coming on in a daisy chain when I hit "listen to stereo". :)

This is similar to what I did with the PL system you see. One touch of the power button on my Rotel pre; sends a trigger to the power centers, which turns on all my gear (minus the PL amps), 5 second turn on delay AC output plugs on the centers click on, and the PL amps light up. It solves the "POP" issue the PL's have when the amps were on before the pre-amps. (which yes I know Don's DC board fixes) but I am dealing with factory PL's here at the moment. Point is; I've set the wiring up in such a way, that ALL that gear, comes on at the touch of one button. Even with the delayed amp power up. kinda nifty really? relays 'clicking" everywhere on start up. And all my girl wanted to do was listen to the radio?? She has to start up racks of gear to do it; so I had to make it female friendly. ;-) Also saves me on clicking the power switch on four amps over and over again. Also saving the life of those switches too. It's win-win I guess?


Thanks for the supportive words fellas. makes me want to do a conversion right now! ;-)
 
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Below, some the gear being used for the soon-to-be completed carver set-up. Fred; I decided PL's are all now strictly out and part of the two-channel audio only system in the man-cave in the basement. I can blow my brains out down there without disturbing too much peace. :)

IMG_0029.jpg
 
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