Being Objective

[speakerman1]

Need to figure out how to supercool voice coils, liquid nitrogen, peltier junctions..........

You could. LOX would work. No moving of any part though.

Larry

 

[speakerman1]

Larry has a good point. Have you ever wondered why cars come in so many colors? Sound quality is similar, hard to justify why or how one is better than the other, but it gives the marketing guys something to play with. If you take horsepower in cars or watts in audio, those are pretty objective (even though there has been manipulation with BHP, RWHP, Computed HP, etc. and Peak watts, RMS watts, Music power, PEP, etc.). Not much to market except the comparison of one models HP or watts against the other, but the style of the equipment and the quality of the sound appeal to everyone differently. The marketing forces try to give us what they think will appeal to us, therefore it sells. If they can get a group to agree that something like solid aluminum face plates or reserve bass power is better, they can charge more for it even though it may not cost them anything for the difference.



Mark

On Linked In there is a guy who calls it My FI. He explained it. As far as rags I don't read them. I have one. LOL You will save money if you research what people in here say. It is 10 characters

 

[laatsch55]

You could. LOX would work. No moving of any part though.

Larry

Well now, the moving part woul be the surrounds. The voice coil has no moving parts.

 

[Pure_Brew]

Ok Joe, by "sound good" i mean neutral. What's neutral?? Hearing cymbals that ring, don't shusss, the "buzz" on bass guitar strings, things I know I've heard live, in person. The purest , cleanest amp that has gone through here is the Spec 2 I did for Chris, followed closely by Larrt's 700, and a lot of 400's right on their tail. The Spec must represent what i think i should be hearing. When someone moves their fingers up and down the frets, that sound I've heard a lot in person, and that particular sound, sounds "right" or it doesn't. Heavy bass passages can tax an amp that doesn't allow for it, resulting in "muddy" in indistinct bass, like what you hear going down the street. Some say bass is easy to reproduce, I think it's not easy to reproduce it right. All of the above are personal subjective opinmions, but I havwe yet to have some one leave the mancave without being impresssed with my set of horns.
Therein lies another curse. the curse of the horns. If a recording is substandard, with the sources I have and the gear that gets it to the speakers, they are VERY revealing, and there is no hiding an engineers or his equipments shortcomings. And when it's an exceptional recording-----------aw jeez-----sometimes the tears flow just from hearing something that beautiful. I have not listened to that many high end speakers, BUT, I've had some folks sit down here that have, and showing them my bucket list of speakers I want to audition, they can tell me in no uncertain terms to cross such and such off my list, in the past month I have crossed off; Van DersteenC-2's, Dahlquist DQ-10's, Dahlquist DQ-7's, Large Advents, HPM 1500's, and HPM 200's. Now, for what I have in the K-Horns, (3,000-3500) one would expect that they would hold they're own against most speakers, and so they have, at least in my little corner of the world. The mid horns are a quantum leap forward from the stock Klipsch units, the tweets slightly better and the woofs--- just a great pairing of cabinet space and drivers parameters. I could be a two sets of speaker kinda guy, IF I could lay my hands on some Ohm Model "F"'s, might even consider running the Soniphase SL6 bass bins with the Ohm's handling the mids and highs. But for sheer musical and physical impact, which is how I listen 80% of the time, I have not heard anything that will even approach what I have now. At this very moment -Younger Brother-- " The Last Days of gravity" is blowing away the last remnants of a very frustrating week at work, which my syatem has always been expected to do. I don't blow up and scream and holler at work when things turn to shit, just slap on some gloves and take care of business, the ass eatins can come later. But that has some consequences also, which music can if played loud and well enough cuts the continuation of that frustration because---YOU CAN NOT HELP BUT BE OVERWHELMED----and all attention is on what you hear. It has helped keep me sane since the age of 18.

Thank you for taking the time to write this down. I appreciate it. A system like yours that is ultra-revealing can be very telling. Although I typically prefer standard driver configurations, it seems very difficult to match the unprecedented benefits of horns. I always thought I'd own a pair in a secondary rig, as they do some things effortlessly that I admire, and not for out of the this world prices. However, I have enough to contend with as it is, with my primary rig. (and I'm sure my wife would not allow more gear in another room!)

 

[laatsch55]

And therein I thank my lucky stars for my wife, as into it as I am and an enabler of the best sort.

 

[laatsch55]

Larrt----what is my FI??

 

[speakerman1]

Well now, the moving part woul be the surrounds. The voice coil has no moving parts.

Dude you had me wondering if I got stupid all of a sudden. Or was this a test? The voice coil does move. I have bottomed out. Here is my proof. Did I pass.
http://www.ehow.com/how-does_4883546_voice-coil-work-speaker.html

Dude you had me going all day. LOL It isn't nice to fool with Mother Nature. LOL

 

[laatsch55]

No, No No, no test. ou're right, the coil moves but not the magnet. If the magnet was cooled surely the coil would benefit??

 

[speakerman1]

Larrt----what is my FI??

HUH?????????

KLaeet

 

[laatsch55]

On Linked In there is a guy who calls it My FI.-------that.

 

[speakerman1]

Instead of Hi Fi

Larry

 

[laatsch55]

Ah.....

 

[speakerman1]

If you made a small coil with liquid nitrogen in it. And completely filled it and crimp the ends. Would it turn to gas as the temp went up? If there was no air in it or any bubbles. I mean completely filled. We made liter bottle bombs with it. We added a little water to it to help. They are loud when they explode. We did this at our safety meetings. LOL

 

[ksrigg]

I love Fisher tube gear, Larry. If you have never listened to any, how do you know you don't like it. That is the definition of subjectivity. Not liking something (audio component) you have never heard. I think there are several things we all consider when making a judgement on a piece of equipment. Appearance IS one of them, whether we like to admit it or not. The quality of sound it produces is another. To be purely objective you must define what it is you are judging. Is it ONLY the quality sound produced by a piece of gear? Or the quantity of sound as well? I don't think so...it goes further...Does it have the controls you might want? Balance, Treble, Bass, Midrange...or for an amp, is a power switch a biggie? Does upsampling have a place in your heart? Do these things go under the subjective or the objective characteristics of an item? I think this is a very interesting subject, but even defining what it is we are attempting to discuss is difficult..There are very few pieces of gear I don't like. Some are better than others, but everything has some appeal. An amp that may not be perfect for your main rig, may be perfect for your little computer system...or for your system at a getaway place, but getting back to Fisher...I think they made the best consumer receiver in the sixties...and they had a lot of competition...I think the SA-1000 amplifier competes with Harman Kardon's Citation II and comes out on top. I like it better than the Marantz 8B. But again, for my specific use..I also LOVE the BOGEN 8417 monoblock amps. For the money, they are a bargain. But no matter how you cut it, I think subjectivity gets in the way. I do not think a person can be objective. It's human nature. That is why most tests are not simply blind, but double blind. Heck, you might not prefer one component over another because the coffee you are drinking isn't the best.. or maybe you don't care for the person conducting the comparison...

About the only thing which is objective are the results of equipment testing...assuming you have use the same wiring, the humidity is the same, the temperature is the same, the test equipment is the same temperature...and even then...do you always get the same numbers when running a test on the same piece of gear?

I don't even know if a computer could be purely objective..it will be biased by the person who designed and programmed it...Look at all the movies devoted to the topic...iRobot, and (can't remember the anme of this one) the movie with the first child humanoid robot...and many others..

All of the above, is, of course my subjective opinion concerning objectivity..

 

[speakerman1]

Never said I didn't like Fisher tube gear? HMMMM I wasn't being objective about about the Thorens. Objective is how you read the tests. If you interpret then you are being subjective. There are always ways to adapt to the surroundings. Not many electrical tests really calculate for the atmosphere since it is a closed system. So you would rather have a subjective Dr. Than an objective? Don't know why I like the Micro tables either. LOL So I am subjective on somethings. LOL Not when it comes down to whether I like a sound or not. I am just now walking the path of TTs. So there can be no subjective involved. Costs to much money. This Hum has to go. LOL

 

[laatsch55]

If you made a small coil with liquid nitrogen in it. And completely filled it and crimp the ends. Would it turn to gas as the temp went up? If there was no air in it or any bubbles. I mean completely filled. We made liter bottle bombs with it. We added a little water to it to help. They are loud when they explode. We did this at our safety meetings. LOL

Simply amaziong how much pressure a 2 liter soda bottle can take before it becomes multiple projectiles.

 

[speakerman1]

We did this at an airport. LOL Think we could now?

 

[laatsch55]

Yep, right before they slap the cuffs on.

 

[speakerman1]

It was a safety meeting. We had a scrap DC 10 the used to see where a bomb would do the most damage. It cracked it like an egg right in half. We couldn't watch. Was kinda cool though. It is illegal to take pics of aircraft in maint. Always has been.

 

[laatsch55]

Why???