700B WOPL Audition List

[Lazarus Short]

sry. bad humor i guess..

[in best Ah-nold voice] It's not a humah!

Got home exactly at 9 PM, bleary and tired - the last few miles were a blur. It was good to meet and visit with Mike, listen to tunes and his system. I liked the Dahlquists [a lot]. I liked the Marantz monoblocks [sweet]. I didn't like the WOPL on the Dahlquists, as they were too revealing. That means my Vandersteens were too forgiving, but given some of my amps, that may be a good thing. We cranked the WOPL some, and out came the fingernails & blackboard. Yup, it's a band amp after all. Sorry folks. Lee, send me an address label, as Mike declined to keep it - it will be off to FedEx ASAP.

 

[laatsch55]

[in best Ah-nold voice] It's not a humah!

Got home exactly at 9 PM, bleary and tired - the last few miles were a blur. It was good to meet and visit with Mike, listen to tunes and his system. I liked the Dahlquists [a lot]. I liked the Marantz monoblocks [sweet]. I didn't like the WOPL on the Dahlquists, as they were too revealing. That means my Vandersteens were too forgiving, but given some of my amps, that may be a good thing. We cranked the WOPL some, and out came the fingernails & blackboard. Yup, it's a band amp after all. Sorry folks. Lee, send me an address label, as Mike declined to keep it - it will be off to FedEx ASAP.

You got it Laz....do I have your e-mail?

 

[laatsch55]

That's why we sent it around Laz, so folks could hear it in their place on their system!!

 

[JustMike]

That's why we sent it around Laz, so folks could hear it in their place on their system!!

Hi guys. Well first off I had to watch the replay of the Cardinal game. Beat the Pirates 1 zip bottom of the ninth.
Its was a pleasure meeting you laz and did enjoy some of the tunes you brought down my friend.
Lee, I can't thank you enough in words brother for letting me give the amp a listen. And Laz for doing all
the heavy lifting and driving all this way. No way is there a forum as down home and offer such friendship.
Ah the AMP. What I could here was a very powerful mid to bottom end. the highs were fatiguing.
I did notice on one cut, Laz had his fingers in his ears. The meters just touching the red. Any more gain
from the preamp and I know from experience it would have taken out the tweeter fuses. My old 700 once took the fuse,
and the tweeter on both channels. So yes I didn't max it out, but man it was loud.
The Dahlquist are very reveling if there is any sound signature from the amp. Hey I don;t want to sound like some
wire listener from Stereophile or whatever, but the highs were very edgee, turn it down a tad and it was gone.
The mid was clean and the low end is amazing.
I think Laz would agree, there may something that has taken a hit after all these trips and you Heavy Metal
heads puting it at fregin mach9.
So all things considered, I will be upgrading my Phase amps for sure . I;m planning on the Phase Amps for the
low mids and four subwoofers and tube amps for the highs in stacked Dahlquists.
And I still have not heard a full comp WOPL. Lee do you think what Laz and I were hearing may be something
that may show up on your analyzer?
One last thing I just remembered. There was a musical pass in one song (help me out here Laz) that went to
extreme dynamics and then just stopped, During that quiet passage, The Amp was dead silent.

I sent the amp back with Laz. I would have enjoyed keeping it longer but I didn't realize that Fedex would not
pic it up way out here in the boondocks. It would have been tough for me to have loaded this beast up.
COPD sucks boys, get off the cigs brothers. Thanks again Laz for hauling it back bro.

 

[laatsch55]

Hi guys. Well first off I had to watch the replay of the Cardinal game. Beat the Pirates 1 zip bottom of the ninth.
Its was a pleasure meeting you laz and did enjoy some of the tunes you brought down my friend.
Lee, I can't thank you enough in words brother for letting me give the amp a listen. And Laz for doing all
the heavy lifting and driving all this way. No way is there a forum as down home and offer such friendship.
Ah the AMP. What I could here was a very powerful mid to bottom end. the highs were fatiguing.
I did notice on one cut, Laz had his fingers in his ears. The meters just touching the red. Any more gain
from the preamp and I know from experience it would have taken out the tweeter fuses. My old 700 once took the fuse,
and the tweeter on both channels. So yes I didn't max it out, but man it was loud.
The Dahlquist are very reveling if there is any sound signature from the amp. Hey I don;t want to sound like some
wire listener from Stereophile or whatever, but the highs were very edgee, turn it down a tad and it was gone.
The mid was clean and the low end is amazing.
I think Laz would agree, there may something that has taken a hit after all these trips and you Heavy Metal
heads puting it at fregin mach9.
So all things considered, I will be upgrading my Phase amps for sure . I;m planning on the Phase Amps for the
low mids and four subwoofers and tube amps for the highs in stacked Dahlquists.
And I still have not heard a full comp WOPL. Lee do you think what Laz and I were hearing may be something
that may show up on your analyzer?
One last thing I just remembered. There was a musical pass in one song (help me out here Laz) that went to
extreme dynamics and then just stopped, During that quiet passage, The Amp was dead silent.

Thanks for your honest assessment Mike. Indeed I should be able to bring up what you are hearing on the analyzer. Indeed it can be wounded and we will find out. My only regret on making this amp the King of Air Miles is the fact it WASN'T full comp. They are much smoother on the top end. The quasi's aren't as bad on the top as you've heard. Dave (premiumplus) has the same Dahlquist setup as you do and fatigue does not seem to be an issue. I do agree they are BASSHOGS, they will get down and stay there. The KHorns can split your hair and get you rinning for the doors also, what seems to have a noticeable effect is the crossovers, they have to be right to keep you in the room. I have experienced the same thing as you and it has been a wounded predriver, seems to get weak at elevated levels. For what ever reason they can get shrill but don't start out that way. I think a tuber n the highs is an excellent idea if you like a warmer high, I'm not a tube guy, bought a set of Cary SLM 100's and as luck would have it, the only set that left the factory with no way to bias the tubes. Larrt bought them and sent them back to Cary and paid dearly to have them right. That bothered me a lot that a manufacturer let a product out the door lacking a standard feature and not making it right on their dime. The Cary's sounded horrible, I could only stand 2 minutes....I have not closed my mind to tubes...if and when I hear a good set I'll give em a good listen....so it would appear we have similiar experiences in the opposite end of the spectrum....kinda cool if you ask me.

Mike I applaud your moxie in giving an honest assessement in front of a bunch of WOPL nuts, and may appear cliquish to an outsider lurking. Tell it like it is in your space and time...that way it can be fixed, we can't fix political correctness....no setting on the AP for that...thanks again..

BTW...in the latest iteration they are even quieter, IIRC that amp was around 500 MICROVOLTS on residual noise, we are now getting them down to 200-300 MIcro's...

 

[JustMike]

Thanks Lee. I have had my Dahlquist and my 700 seriesII for many moons. Bought them both new.
I would have noticed this high edge before. I believe it may in fact be wounded.
The Marantz mono blocks that were playing had no problem on the top end but lacking big time on the lows.
Very clean though for little ss amps. I agree, that all tube amps are not created equal and by no means a
cure all. Some sound like shit, some pretty sweet. Same with SS.
One big thing I did notice with the WOPL, the turn on thumps and screeming me me's at turn off are gone.

I just read your edit . Sweet. Upgrades are my plans.

 

[laatsch55]

That amp has Don Imlay's DC protect board in it. It has on/off muting so you were experiencing an aftermarket solution to an old PL problem. In Joe's world that doesn't fly and as time has gone on his re-engineering of the entire board has, by itself now, eliminated all turn on/off thump. I have run the Pig "naked" just to test those features on Joe's board and can attest to the fact that after turning the amp off, youy find yourself listening for something that will not come....it's just a fade to black....

Don Imlay posts here as wattsabundant, and although the on/off muting feature is no longer needed, the DC protect part allows me to punish my K's without worrying I'm gonna take em out if an output fails. I have lost an output going full tilt boogie with Don's board in place , the board did it's job admirably, the relay was trash, but that was a 15.00 fix. A trade i'll take all day long.
Joe has brought the PL platform kicking and screaming into the 21st century.....and he ain't done yet....lotsa things in the works...there always are with him...

 

[laatsch55]

Also Mike, the 700II coming yur way got the Deluxe Model II Ed Blackwood treatment a few years ago. complete rebuild on the board and conversion to fully comp....

 

[JustMike]

Also Mike, the 700II coming yur way got the Deluxe Model II Ed Blackwood treatment a few years ago. complete rebuild on the board and conversion to fully comp....

How Kool is that. Remember when I mentioned the solid aluminum knobs? I thought maybe a full comp.
A hint Ed told me once that the fulls had those knobs. At any rate, I'm stoked brother.

And now that the cat is totally out of the bag.............I did buy the whole (9yards) Pl stack!
Tell me now whos got the PL addiction. On PL since '73 LOL!!

 

[laatsch55]

A complete Ed resto is nothing to sneeze at, as good as that Pl can get in stock form..I wouldn't put much stock on the solid knob/ full comp thing. Serial numbers were the only consistent way of telling if a stock amp was fully comp. Ed has told me that whenever a 700 II came in for a resto it got converted to fully comp whether the customer wanted it or not and a lot of times when the customer found out they were dumbfounded, and some even upped the payment. Ed is a very meticulous and anal fixer, from polishing bolts to painting end bells he does it all, as standard procedure, something the rest of us aspire too...

 

[laatsch55]

After this many years who's to say the knobs came with it is what I meant, not that Ed wasn't correct...I have learned Ed is a waliking history book on most things PL and has an encyclopedic knowledge of a lot of it...

 

[laatsch55]

That stack just became a bargain...

 

[gadget73]

I;m planning on the Phase Amps for the
low mids and four subwoofers and tube amps for the highs in stacked Dahlquists.

Thats probably my eventual plan for mine. I have this Bogen 25 watt amp that sounds just amazing, but it sucks for bass reproduction. The PL700 is sort of the opposite, though its getting better as I fix and restore things. I've yet to find a solid state amp that doesn't make me want to plug my ears with any sort of volume though. On the other hand, I've not really found a tube amp that has a solid low end rumble, so I think pairing the two would be the best of both worlds.

 

[Northwinds]

I noticed a highend sizzle with the quasi demo 700B and Blackie when she was still quasi at extreme levels. It was not an issue when you have an EQ to tone the highs down a tad when needed. I attributed it to the CV's, they are high crazy anyway and I have the controls on both of them dialed all the way back (mids and highs). I always felt the highs on CV's were their weak point. This may be an issue with how some tweeters sound with a specific amp at high output levels. I don't feel this is a "band" amp in any respect but once they are Full Comp, they are a different animal

I have heard many "band" amps and the audition amp really should be not lumped unfairly like that, perhaps it is getting long in tooth but Lee also said it needed about 15 more hours of work. He just got it working well enough so it could be demo'd to give folks a taste of the potential that resides inside. That amp also needs to be on all the time and does not really reveal it's sound until a few days later of constant power on

EDIT: The cheerleader in me is coming out, I respect what you say Mike because I never had Dahlquists to compare to. I do know the CV's are not the best speakers and do need some more work, either trying different tweeters or maybe digging into the X-overs to find the sweet spot. I wish I had not sold my Infinity EMITS, I think they would have been a big help. I do have some of the polydome Infinity's I may try at some point. The CV tweeters can be an icepick in the ear with some recordings... ESPECIALLY 80s made CD's

 

[BubbaH]

Horns FTW.

 

[gadget73]

Horns FTW.

Those tend to be environmentally dependant though. I have a pair of Klipsch KG-4's that I love upstairs in the bedroom, but out in the workshop they sounded horrible. I was going to sell them just to make them go away before I decided to haul them up the stairs for a trial run in another room. Dunno, some people love them, some hate them. I think they're good in the right conditions, but thats just my experience with them.

 

[Northwinds]

I wonder how Mach 1's would sound, they have a pretty good horn in them and I always liked the bullet tweeter. I would imagine some X-over beefing up would be required though

 

[Lazarus Short]

I noticed a highend sizzle with the quasi demo 700B and Blackie when she was still quasi at extreme levels. It was not an issue when you have an EQ to tone the highs down a tad when needed. I attributed it to the CV's, they are high crazy anyway and I have the controls on both of them dialed all the way back (mids and highs). I always felt the highs on CV's were their weak point. This may be an issue with how some tweeters sound with a specific amp at high output levels. I don't feel this is a "band" amp in any respect but once they are Full Comp, they are a different animal

I have heard many "band" amps and the audition amp really should be not lumped unfairly like that, perhaps it is getting long in tooth but Lee also said it needed about 15 more hours of work. He just got it working well enough so it could be demo'd to give folks a taste of the potential that resides inside. That amp also needs to be on all the time and does not really reveal it's sound until a few days later of constant power on

EDIT: The cheerleader in me is coming out, I respect what you say Mike because I never had Dahlquists to compare to. I do know the CV's are not the best speakers and do need some more work, either trying different tweeters or maybe digging into the X-overs to find the sweet spot. I wish I had not sold my Infinity EMITS, I think they would have been a big help. I do have some of the polydome Infinity's I may try at some point. The CV tweeters can be an icepick in the ear with some recordings... ESPECIALLY 80s made CD's

NW, I'm thinking that the ice-pick tweeter in your CV's may be so because it's having to cover too wide a frequency range. You should consider a rebuild with a good three-way crossover, a good midrange, and the tweeter. If the ice-pick effect doesn't go away, a new tweeter can be substituted. What do you think of that?

 

[BubbaH]

Those tend to be environmentally dependant though. I have a pair of Klipsch KG-4's that I love upstairs in the bedroom, but out in the workshop they sounded horrible. I was going to sell them just to make them go away before I decided to haul them up the stairs for a trial run in another room. Dunno, some people love them, some hate them. I think they're good in the right conditions, but thats just my experience with them.

Mine sound best outside. When I lived up north, there was about a KM or more of distance filled with bush between me and lake. People on the other side of the lake came over and threatened to smash my stereo. Speakers were inside at the time. I wished them good luck with that asked them to kindly leave my property.

 

[Northwinds]

NW, I'm thinking that the ice-pick tweeter in your CV's may be so because it's having to cover too wide a frequency range. You should consider a rebuild with a good three-way crossover, a good midrange, and the tweeter. If the ice-pick effect doesn't go away, a new tweeter can be substituted. What do you think of that?

These are what mine look like, they are 3 way. They are 33" tall and weigh around 60lbs a piece

http://www.amazon.com/Cerwin-Vega-E...inued-Manufacturer/product-reviews/B00007BGPA

In the first review, it was mentioned that the highs are a common complaint but also, like I do, use an EQ (or treble control if you have one) to tone them down at high SPL levels