Phase Linear 3000 Ser II relay sub for the HB2E-DC24

[laatsch55]

Thanks to Fabo-Nav , I was trolling a adapter site and stumbled accross an adapter that plugs into the footprint of the HB2E-DC24 relay. On this adapter board is a sealed Panasonic SOIC, TXSA series electromechanical relay. The relay shown on the example is a 12 volt, the TXSA series does go to 24 volt DC.
The 3000 had relay issues when it was made. they tried backing off the coil voltage to 19 volts to try andd increase coil life, then the respeccing of the HB2C-Dc24 to a nitrogen filled variant, the HB2E-DC24. If you have tried to find an HB2E-DC24 you know how frustrating it can be. Her's a link to the adapter, I have not tried it but look's like it could be the answer to every 3000 Ser II owners prayers...

http://www.arieselexsac.com/products/18086.pdf

 

[NavLinear]

Sometimes it's good to be bored.

 

[Gepetto]

Lee
Where do you see it being a solid state relay?

 

[Gepetto]

Looks like a relay nightmare Lee. As bad as the interconnects on the PL4000 preamp motherboard.

 

[jbeckva]

Looks like a relay nightmare Lee. As bad as the interconnects on the PL4000 preamp motherboard.

Pretty dang timely tho - I just put my 3000 Series II back up. Definitely have a flaky one for the Aux connection. (yeah I know I gots a couple from ya Lee... just thinkin' HMMM... maybe I do 'em all!)

Looks like it's meant to take a surface mount relay on the topside. The circuit paths seem to be pretty simple?

 

[laatsch55]

Looks like a relay nightmare Lee. As bad as the interconnects on the PL4000 preamp motherboard.

Well it certainly didn't look electromechanical?? What don't you like about the connections, I'm not looking at it with the same eye.............obviously..........LOL...

 

[laatsch55]

Pretty dang timely tho - I just put my 3000 Series II back up. Definitely have a flaky one for the Aux connection. (yeah I know I gots a couple from ya Lee... just thinkin' HMMM... maybe I do 'em all!)

Looks like it's meant to take a surface mount relay on the topside. The circuit paths seem to be pretty simple?

If ya got it down for 1, the rest aren't long behind.

 

[laatsch55]

Yes Mr. Joe, it is electromechanical. It is also sealed. What part of the adapter is a connection nightmare? It appears the relays are surface mount and soldered to the adapter.

 

[Gepetto]

Hi Lee, it is not the adaptor that I was referring to as a nightmare, it is the PL3000. Looks like the design team at PL discovered relays that year or owned stock in a company that made them

 

[Gepetto]

Solid State Relays (SSRs)

Hi Lee
Solid state relays are generally for controlling AC, they are back to back SCRs or Thyristors depending on the size and would not be appropriate inside a preamp.

Analog muxes or switches are generally used in low level applications such as a preamp. They are effectively a MOSFET or JFET channel that is controlled by logic.

 

[laatsch55]

Thank you Sir. Do you believe this adapter to be a viable alternative to a fruitless HB2E search???

 

[laatsch55]

I mean Jeez, 14 is to damn many.....

 

[jbeckva]

Hi Lee
Solid state relays are generally for controlling AC, they are back to back SCRs or Thyristors depending on the size and would not be appropriate inside a preamp.

Analog muxes or switches are generally used in low level applications such as a preamp. They are effectively a MOSFET or JFET channel that is controlled by logic.

Yep I agree there .. but aren't there any SMD mounted relays, old-fashioned style? I seem to recall these dip socket mounted relays that were used in the interface switches on the Grumman-made ATE benches - looked like a miniature circular "can" made of metal. They didn't last too long either... but maybe they've been improved on since then.

In my limited experience with various preamps/receivers that think they are preamps tho, if I had a choice between the PL 3000 with relays and preamps that use FET type switching I'm going to go with the 3000 and it's funky relays (I do have that choice, and I have). When all is working, there's nothing in the way that could degrade the signal path. "Noisy" FETS, on the other hand, I have heard and experienced (they can throw a measurement channel out of cal, quickly). How easy/hard/impossible is it to get those FET switches nowadays? I'd see if maybe a replacement of them does any good, but if it's already a known that most are impossible/hard to find then sheesh... I won't go down that road.

Of course if I had me a preamp with the old OLD fashioned circular wafer switches + two cans of deoxit, I might go with that instead of the 3000.

(yeah it's that Aux relay... but no, nothing else is giving me fits at the moment.. )

 

[Gepetto]

Thank you Sir. Do you believe this adapter to be a viable alternative to a fruitless HB2E search???

Yes Lee it looks viable for sure.

 

[Gepetto]

Yep I agree there .. but aren't there any SMD mounted relays, old-fashioned style? I seem to recall these dip socket mounted relays that were used in the interface switches on the Grumman-made ATE benches - looked like a miniature circular "can" made of metal. They didn't last too long either... but maybe they've been improved on since then.

In my limited experience with various preamps/receivers that think they are preamps tho, if I had a choice between the PL 3000 with relays and preamps that use FET type switching I'm going to go with the 3000 and it's funky relays (I do have that choice, and I have). When all is working, there's nothing in the way that could degrade the signal path. "Noisy" FETS, on the other hand, I have heard and experienced (they can throw a measurement channel out of cal, quickly). How easy/hard/impossible is it to get those FET switches nowadays? I'd see if maybe a replacement of them does any good, but if it's already a known that most are impossible/hard to find then sheesh... I won't go down that road.

Of course if I had me a preamp with the old OLD fashioned circular wafer switches + two cans of deoxit, I might go with that instead of the 3000.

(yeah it's that Aux relay... but no, nothing else is giving me fits at the moment.. )

Analog switches and muxes are readily available Jer. Of course it would take some circuit adaptation to drop them in where a coil type relay goes now.

 

[jbeckva]

Lee I know ya sent the dang thing to me, but as usual....

Can you review the tech notes on this guy and tell me what they list again as the most problematic relays? I only got two, so I have to use 'em sparingly. I can't read the dang skeezer I can "get" worth a damn to know what relay's what.

(at least I did figure K13 was probably one of them... )

So on "this" deal here... the aries adapters would need a SMD mounted relay right? Just thinking maybe I'll be the guinea pig here...

 

[laatsch55]

Let me dig it out Jer. Just got home.

 

[laatsch55]

Ya want the schemo and board lay out?

 

[laatsch55]

Here ya go Jer..

 

[jbeckva]

Here ya go Jer..

Thanks that helped. I stopped at K13 as in my case it made the most sense. Seems to have done it, but hmm... I am still interested in checking these Aires adapters out. Question tho... is it "any ole" smd relay that'll "fit" or what should be the actual pattern of the relay I choose to put on top of the adapter? I know they have the option to have 'em pre mounted, but they only mention the 12 volt relays where 24 is needed here.