Jer's 700B Quasi to Full Comp/Backplane Build

[Phase Linear Phanatic]

We should change your name from PLP to "Full Retail"

Yeah I know. (Sighh)..

From what I understand, it's a friend of my brother's whom knows a great deal of Phase Linear here in STL and as such, I asked him to keep an eye out for me on the bay if he saw one come to pass that he felt passed the smell test knowing what he knows about them. He has an ebay store of his own. And since I work so damn much; I asked my brother to have him set up an account for me. Since I cannot be on the computer almost all day long. He found one I guess and texted me if I wanted to spend on it, and I said what the hell eh? So yeah..... I probably just paid for what it would cost to do a whole white oak conversion, just on the amp alone. Looks like I have to pay that off first before I do any mods.

And on that note; my dang job is now trying to incorporate sundays into my work week! Seven day work week?! Soooo my existence is now wiring till I die. Fantastic. This is why I have you guys tackle the off hour projects for me, because by the time I get home, if I see another wire, I feel like puking. Hah ha.

Work........ That reminds me; we got some incorrect buss bars for monsanto's panels in. So these are worthless. Can ya use the buss bars Lee? Keep in mind I am 6'4" and that's a damn big hand there. I believe they measure 3/4" thick by 4" wide by 10" long solid copper.

 

[laatsch55]

Yeah I know. (Sighh).. 

From what I understand, it's a friend of my brother's whom knows a great deal of Phase Linear here in STL and as such, I asked him to keep an eye out for me on the bay if he saw one come to pass that he felt passed the smell test knowing what he knows about them. He has an ebay store of his own. And since I work so damn much; I asked my brother to have him set up an account for me. Since I cannot be on the computer almost all day long. He found one I guess and texted me if I wanted to spend on it, and I said what the hell eh? So yeah..... I probably just paid for what it would cost to do a whole white oak conversion, just on the amp alone. Looks like I have to pay that off first before I do any mods.

And on that note; my dang job is now trying to incorporate sundays into my work week! Seven day work week?! Soooo my existence is now wiring till I die. Fantastic.  This is why I have you guys tackle the off hour projects for me, because by the time I get home, if I see another wire, I feel like puking. Hah ha.

Work........ That reminds me; we got some incorrect buss bars for monsanto's panels in. So these are worthless. Can ya use the buss bars Lee? Keep in mind I am 6'4" and that's a damn big hand there. I believe they measure 3/4" thick by 4" wide by 10" long solid copper.

View attachment 12840 View attachment 12841

PLP, I GOTTA have those!! Those are far bigger than any I have. Those copper bars would alos exhibit capacitance, how much I don't know, but since you asked I gotta have em now! I'm 6'6" and have pretty big hands too, they appear to be a handfull..

 

[Phase Linear Phanatic]

PLP, I GOTTA have those!! Those are far bigger than any I have. Those copper bars would alos exhibit capacitance, how much I don't know, but since you asked I gotta have em now! I'm 6'6" and have pretty big hands too, they appear to be a handfull..

Love your response Lee! I think if you look closely, you will also see the bar is laser etched with the UL stamp. I have 25 of them. They probably cost hundreds each so I bet they may try and get their dough back, but let me see if my shop will approve me to get one. Maybe we can trade bar for bolts or something simple? I'll send it to you and if you like it; I'll see if I can snag you a couple more. I hope the pre-drilled holes aren't a concern for you though?

 

[laatsch55]

Love your response Lee! I think if you look closely, you will also see the bar is laser etched with the UL stamp. I have 25 of them. They probably cost hundreds each so I bet they may try and get their dough back, but let me see if my shop will approve me to get one. Maybe we can trade bar for bolts or something simple? I'll send it to you and if you like it; I'll see if I can snag you a couple more. I hope the pre-drilled holes aren't a concern for you though?

Yeah, we can work something out..

 

[jbeckva]

Alright, I did miss that lil tidbit about the ac wirin...

.. And the right channel seems to be sufferin from it.. (could be the OTHER Joe-tip about moving that cap over too, but anyway.. )

So.. just looked again at it and Lee's current build, and .. hmmm... So you're saying shoot right out and up from the ac fuse, over and through the power switch.. then come back down on the other end for the transformer?

I'm thinking I don't like that outlet wired up, so first that's "out". I'll keep it physically but it's just there to keep dust out.

Then... I'll shoot both hot and neutral up the same path, keeping it all on the "right"... over and close to the panel like you guys... then both come down "somewhere" on the terminal block. One will wire direct to one of the primary wires, the other goes out and back (loop this time around) for the thermal cutouts. The end result is NO ac wires even close to either the input or output wiring. How's that guys? Or is that whatcha doing anyway?

Yeah I'm going to relocate that DCP cap too while I'm in there again..

 

[Gepetto]

.. And the right channel seems to be sufferin from it.. (could be the OTHER Joe-tip about moving that cap over too, but anyway.. )

So.. just looked again at it and Lee's current build, and .. hmmm... So you're saying shoot right out and up from the ac fuse, over and through the power switch.. then come back down on the other end for the transformer?

I'm thinking I don't like that outlet wired up, so first that's "out". I'll keep it physically but it's just there to keep dust out.

Then... I'll shoot both hot and neutral up the same path, keeping it all on the "right"... over and close to the panel like you guys... then both come down "somewhere" on the terminal block. One will wire direct to one of the primary wires, the other goes out and back (loop this time around) for the thermal cutouts. The end result is NO ac wires even close to either the input or output wiring. How's that guys? Or is that whatcha doing anyway?

Yeah I'm going to relocate that DCP cap too while I'm in there again..

That is how we do it Jer and if you look at the pictures posted, you can see that. It is important to have the AC paired with a return wire in all cases.

 

[jbeckva]

That is how we do it Jer and if you look at the pictures posted, you can see that. It is important to have the AC paired with a return wire in all cases.

I looked at the pictures and all I can see is the wires going out from the fuse .. to somewhere. And a wire still around the top? Can you post which message shows it all or ?

Dem wires are black.. so is the back wall.. it's all camo man... hehe.

 

[Gepetto]

I looked at the pictures and all I can see is the wires going out from the fuse .. to somewhere. And a wire still around the top? Can you post which message shows it all or ?

Dem wires are black.. so is the back wall.. it's all camo man... hehe.

Here are the ones I posted for Lee...The first 2 show how you route out the AC

 

[jbeckva]

Here are the ones I posted for Lee...The first 2 show how you route out the AC

View attachment 12932 View attachment 12933 View attachment 12930 View attachment 12931

(looking at your first pic)

Why have a wire on the right, from the bottom and going UP (near the inputs) and over to the cutouts? I think that is where I am thinking differently - I will be routing *both* hot and neutral right from the fuse and grommet up to the panel.. over with the switch serial to the hot.. then back down and straight to two lugs on the terminal block. The neutral will wire directly to one side of the primary, the other will run over .. and back.. to the thermal cutouts (or should I take the same hot that went through the switch ALSO through the cutouts?).

That way there is NO wire any closer to the inputs and outputs than the right side thermal cutout. I am foregoing the outlet... and if I did wire it I would branch from the fuse on one end, then the neutral makes a short jump "up" to the switch, then back down and with the hot to the right side of the panel, etc..

 

[Gepetto]

(looking at your first pic)

Why have a wire on the right, from the bottom and going UP (near the inputs) and over to the cutouts? I think that is where I am thinking differently - I will be routing *both* hot and neutral right from the fuse and grommet up to the panel.. over with the switch serial to the hot.. then back down and straight to two lugs on the terminal block. The neutral will wire directly to one side of the primary, the other will run over .. and back.. to the thermal cutouts (or should I take the same hot that went through the switch ALSO through the cutouts?).

That way there is NO wire any closer to the inputs and outputs than the right side thermal cutout. I am foregoing the outlet... and if I did wire it I would branch from the fuse on one end, then the neutral makes a short jump "up" to the switch, then back down and with the hot to the right side of the panel, etc..

It is your amp Jer. If you don't need or want the fan outlet then you have more flexibility. I think Lee just moves the AC cord and fuse to the side by the transformer.

 

[jbeckva]

It is your amp Jer. If you don't need or want the fan outlet then you have more flexibility. I think Lee just moves the AC cord and fuse to the side by the transformer.

Joe I ask these questions not to challenge but to understand. If I did wire the outlet, it too would not require the wire (I don't THINK.. that's why I am asking...) coming up and over the top.

I think that by following yours and Lee's lead it lit a few more "lightbulbs" off here, and maybe some you guys did or didn't think about.. so these last few posts are more like "did you think about it, and if you did what's the downside? And if you didn't, good idea or not?".

I think... that by keeping those 120 volts AC as far away from the main circuits (especially the inputs), then wherever an inch or two of clearance can be "had" that it'll all add up. I'm also thinking .. take the meter wires and terminate them on the bottom, and specifically 6L, 6R, and either 5 L or R for the ground, since they're coming out on the top kind of close to the thermals... Good idea, bad idea, ??

 

[Gepetto]

Joe I ask these questions not to challenge but to understand. If I did wire the outlet, it too would not require the wire (I don't THINK.. that's why I am asking...) coming up and over the top.

I think that by following yours and Lee's lead it lit a few more "lightbulbs" off here, and maybe some you guys did or didn't think about.. so these last few posts are more like "did you think about it, and if you did what's the downside? And if you didn't, good idea or not?".

I think... that by keeping those 120 volts AC as far away from the main circuits (especially the inputs), then wherever an inch or two of clearance can be "had" that it'll all add up. I'm also thinking .. take the meter wires and terminate them on the bottom, and specifically 6L, 6R, and either 5 L or R for the ground, since they're coming out on the top kind of close to the thermals... Good idea, bad idea, ??

Jer
I keep AC to the maximum extent possible on the low impedance side of the backplane boards, namely the top side. I cross the inputs at right angles only one time and with a separation of over 3" to the input leads since the wire termination from the inputs comes toward the front panel. I lace the input shielded wires separately from all other wires and move them to the front panel. The AC leads hug the right angle fold in the chassis sheet metal. Those 2 AC leads are virtually the only wires up at the top of the chassis.

If you want to switch the outlet using the scheme you will have to loop a wire back from the AC switch to the outlet, reversing course from the other 2 wires that you have going in that direction. That will produce an unpaired AC wire.

I will try to take a meaningful birds eye view from the top of the amp.

 

[jbeckva]

Jer
I keep AC to the maximum extent possible on the low impedance side of the backplane boards, namely the top side. I cross the inputs at right angles only one time and with a separation of over 3" to the input leads since the wire termination from the inputs comes toward the front panel. I lace the input shielded wires separately from all other wires and move them to the front panel. The AC leads hug the right angle fold in the chassis sheet metal. Those 2 AC leads are virtually the only wires up at the top of the chassis.

If you want to switch the outlet using the scheme you will have to loop a wire back from the AC switch to the outlet, reversing course from the other 2 wires that you have going in that direction. That will produce an unpaired AC wire.

I will try to take a meaningful birds eye view from the top of the amp.

The AC wires going up and over the inputs are what I am trying to avoid by looping the thermal strictly out of the left side. You are correct about the outlet if it is to be switched. Then we seriously start thinking about polarizing the plug... (any lightbulbs going off there? )

Then there's the "O.C. nucking futz" idea about taking any and all of the AC runs, and with a hollowed out RG6 cable as the jacket and shield and a 3 prong plug... but I digress.

 

[Gepetto]

The AC wires going up and over the inputs are what I am trying to avoid by looping the thermal strictly out of the left side. You are correct about the outlet if it is to be switched. Then we seriously start thinking about polarizing the plug... (any lightbulbs going off there? )

Then there's the "O.C. nucking futz" idea about taking any and all of the AC runs, and with a hollowed out RG6 cable as the jacket and shield and a 3 prong plug... but I digress.

Hi Jer. Measure my total AC wire length and compare that to yours. The scheme I use minimizes the overall length of paired AC wire. Sometimes length is not a good thing

 

[jbeckva]

Hi Jer. Measure my total AC wire length and compare that to yours. The scheme I use minimizes the overall length of paired AC wire. Sometimes length is not a good thing

Guarantee you my original scheme had a whole lot less.. I had but two wires running the whole right to left, with just the 1 inch down for each cutoff, and finally about 6 inches between the term block and the panel, terminating directly at the switch and just 2 inches more for the lights.

And it sucked for hum on the right side... at least that was my theory anyway. I got the idea of running through the panel after hearing that hum, and reading both your's and Lee's posts / looking at the pictures. And that is when I saw the wire up and over the inputs, and questioned why, when the whole concept I could see is to keep the wires totally away from that corner. What did I miss?

 

[laatsch55]

Jer if you look at the last pic in post 88 you'll see the PAIRED AC going to the top and turning left. From that same view the relationship of the shielded to thhe AC as being at right angles. When it APPEARS to start to parallel it it's pulling away from the chassis back at that point, and where they cross is the closest they get. Parallel is ok when you're diving away from it at a high rate of angle...just after the crossing. I've noticed when I have noise, it's worse on the left side and I always assume it's from the transformer, but with rhe shielded pair being exposed ti the AC it is the left channel that is closest. That's what I try to eliminate by moving the AC in, but
joe had significantly better residual noise figures than I did this time, so it may be a moot point any more to move the AC ins. I'll have a better idea when I finish Johans....

 

[jbeckva]

Ok, here's what I was sayin...

Sometimes I have to go with my convictions... So...

First, we shoot right up from the fuse to panel...



And along with the run through the panel, the black is switched AND we also pick up the two LV AC wires for the lights... all coming back to the Block near the transformer... btw if you look close you'll now see "C3" (aka the filter cap for the DCP relocated to this side.



And from the block, and in between the low side and the other primary wire, we run a single pair up and over to the thermals, and then right back... (sidenote.. you might also see the lil 3 wire peeking up from the bottom (meters), and what I did there)



So NOW.. what I ended up with is a totally AC free right hand side. No AC sneaking up and around the inputs.. speaker posts.. nothing.



Was it worth it??.. did it work?? HELL FUCKIN' YES IT DID!! And this amp, in combination with a DIRECT feed from my DAC (that's the lil guy on the left with the 1 knob vol control), is absolutely DEATH QUIET. I can't hear anything.. at all.. not 2 inches from the D9's (108 db SPL sens.) tweeter. NOTHING.. not even a mouse fart!

But romp on it, and watch shit fall off walls.. cops get called.. wives file for dee-vorce... yes, I am now DONE with this one. It has to rank up there as the best 700 (The "Beastie" was a close 2nd, prolly because it was a QC build), and as I listen more it's looking like it's edging out Ron's last 400 FC. We will see with Ron's other "blackie now whitey" how they compare once that one's done in a few weeks...

 

[laatsch55]

More than one way to skin a mink...man I wish you could measure residual noise, would love to see what it is. And if it's quiet on some 9's, it's gotta be quiet.

 

[jbeckva]

More than one way to skin a mink...man I wish you could measure residual noise, would love to see what it is. And if it's quiet on some 9's, it's gotta be quiet.

Yeah can't hear anything. Was funny as shit too - I guess while I was "testing", friends of the family came driving up to drop their daughter off for a play date with mine. My wife tells me she told my daughter to hurry up and get up here to tell me to turn it down, otherwise they might just go back up the driveway and drive away! LOL... my daughter yells "Turn it down.. my friend is here!!". I reply "well hi there, friend!!". Yeah ya probably had to be here.. LMBO.

Anywhoo... but seriously I do think part of why it's so damn quiet is the DAC. I noticed that before this round of work - the left channel which didn't have the "buzz" was a heck of a lot quieter than when my HK pre is in-circuit.

Which (yeah).. reminds me that while I'm waiting for Ron's stuff I need to work on those 3000's, and Kev's FIRST.

 

[laatsch55]

When in doubt, go direct....