White Oak PL14 upgrade on 700B Quasi Comp

66stanger

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#21
Hi Cyril
I recommend that you consider replacing Q1-Q4 which were put in backwards during your assembly process. Give that a try.

Thanks
Joe
Hi Joe,


Q1 to Q4 are good on DVM but I'm going to replace them for safety. I've 50 of each. It should do... ;-)


About Bias, following your experience on PL, what is the difference between 300mV/400mV ?
I mean audio quality.


About THD, no mesure but we hear well that the harmonic distortion gradient is not good.
mostly on piano...

The Nov. 11th, it's off in FRANCE.
The time to replace Q1 to Q4 and adjust the bias to 380mV.
And testing...
I will let you know...

Did you felt a run-in process (Break-in) on driver board ?
Mostly with capacitors ?

Thank you,
 

oldphaser

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#22
The way the technicians in the Phase Linear service department actually adjusted the bias on the amplifiers was by looking at the crossover notch (using a distortion analyzer, oscilloscope, signal generator, dummy load, etc.) at 1 watt @ 1KHz into an 8 ohm load and compromising (by means of the bias trimpot) between both states of the amplifier being HOT and COLD at 1W @ 1KHZ. NOTE: In order to create the HOT condition the amplifier is driven at 1/3rd power into a 4 ohm load in order to generate enough heat to create a HOT condition and then checked again at 1 watt at 1KHz. (I will call this a dynamic bias adjustment). This is done by sight and without measuring across the 10 ohm resistors. NOTE: In some cases the bias will go up when the amplifier is HOT and some cases it will go down.

After the dynamic bias adjustment has been made, I have found that the amplifiers are typically biased more towards 450mV when measured in an idle state (as is detailed in the service manuals). The 450mV may also be a bit higher due to the fact that many of the 10 ohm carbon composition resistors are now measuring higher (i.e. 11 ohms) as a result of the drift upwards in value over the years (as is common for carbon composition resistors).

The exception to this dynamic bias adjustment in the Phase Linear service department were fully complementary output amplifiers like the 300 series II and the PRO 700’s which exhibited very low distortion (due to a simple capacitor modification/relocation). As a result of this lower distortion the crossover notch is much smaller and is harder to see and therefore harder to adjust. The Phase Linear amplifier service manuals will state something like: “allow a sufficient warm up time” or “allow a 5 minute warm up period” before adjusting bias. The typical range of bias for Phase Linear amplifiers is approximately 300mv to 450mV. (NOTE: In most series 1 amp service manuals the upper end is listed around 400mV.) I call this type of bias adjustment a static bias adjustment. This is also done without the benefit of observing the crossover notch and utilizing the test equipment listed above. In the case of the 300 series II and PRO700's the bias was adjusted to approximately 385mV.

NOTE: I personally will not service any amplifier without observing the crossover notch. I use the test equipment noted above at a variety of frequencies and output levels. You never know what kinds of oscillations, noise, etc. you might encounter. Simple static bias adjustments will not reveal what is really going on inside your amplifier.

Hopefully all of this will all make sense. If not, please post your reply with your questions and I will do my best to answer.

By the way, there is a Carver M-400t amplifier service manual (page 48 I believe it is) which gives an approximate example of what the crossover notch should look like. The Phase Linear amps are slightly different. Someday I will post some pictures.

Ed
 
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Northwinds

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#23
I have NEVER heard any distortion as you describe in piano passages on ANY of the WOPL's I have had so I hope you get this figured out, not even in the decay of notes, they never warble! I am wondering if it's not a build issue whether your hearing the deficiencies of the original recording??? The WOPL bares all! Also, could it be a problem with your preamp?

Thanks Ed for the info, I am sure it will be put to good use!
 

oldphaser

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#26
Lee,

As you requested, here is a copy of the Carver M-400t service manual page 48 "crossover notch" which is similar to the crossover notch on some Phase Linear amplifiers.

Carver has an interesting method also detailed on the same page. (See second jpg).

Perhaps there should also have been some discussion of what your settings should be on your oscilloscope when measuring/observing the height of the crossover notch. I believe mine is set to 2 Volts/CM.
 

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grapplesaw

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#30
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grapplesaw

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#34
This thread is timely for me as I observed some bias crossover at one point in my latest build

I am researching this topic and will post more info later

For those who are lost a good start would be to review this site to understand the difference in amplifiers and how basis affects some


http://www.qsl.net/va3iul/RF Power Amplifiers/RF_Power_Amplifiers.pdf

And good overall review of bias adjustment here

http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/bias_e.html
New links added and updated
 

NavLinear

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#36
From Wikipedia:

"The graticule is a grid of squares that serve as reference marks for measuring the displayed trace. These markings, whether located directly on the screen or on a removable plastic filter, usually consist of a 1 cm grid with closer tick marks (often at 2 mm) on the centre vertical and horizontal axis. One expects to see ten major divisions across the screen; the number of vertical major divisions varies. Comparing the grid markings with the waveform permits one to measure both voltage (vertical axis) and time (horizontal axis). Frequency can also be determined by measuring the waveform period and calculating its reciprocal."
 

Gepetto

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#37
From Wikipedia:

"The graticule is a grid of squares that serve as reference marks for measuring the displayed trace. These markings, whether located directly on the screen or on a removable plastic filter, usually consist of a 1 cm grid with closer tick marks (often at 2 mm) on the centre vertical and horizontal axis. One expects to see ten major divisions across the screen; the number of vertical major divisions varies. Comparing the grid markings with the waveform permits one to measure both voltage (vertical axis) and time (horizontal axis). Frequency can also be determined by measuring the waveform period and calculating its reciprocal."
You got it Nav...
 

66stanger

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#38
The way the technicians in the Phase Linear service department actually adjusted the bias on the amplifiers was by looking at the crossover notch (using a distortion analyzer, oscilloscope, signal generator, dummy load, etc.) at 1 watt @ 1KHz into an 8 ohm load and compromising (by means of the bias trimpot) between both states of the amplifier being HOT and COLD at 1W @ 1KHZ. NOTE: In order to create the HOT condition the amplifier is driven at 1/3rd power into a 4 ohm load in order to generate enough heat to create a HOT condition and then checked again at 1 watt at 1KHz. (I will call this a dynamic bias adjustment). This is done by sight and without measuring across the 10 ohm resistors. NOTE: In some cases the bias will go up when the amplifier is HOT and some cases it will go down.

After the dynamic bias adjustment has been made, I have found that the amplifiers are typically biased more towards 450mV when measured in an idle state (as is detailed in the service manuals). The 450mV may also be a bit higher due to the fact that many of the 10 ohm carbon composition resistors are now measuring higher (i.e. 11 ohms) as a result of the drift upwards in value over the years (as is common for carbon composition resistors).

The exception to this dynamic bias adjustment in the Phase Linear service department were fully complementary output amplifiers like the 300 series II and the PRO 700’s which exhibited very low distortion (due to a simple capacitor modification/relocation). As a result of this lower distortion the crossover notch is much smaller and is harder to see and therefore harder to adjust. The Phase Linear amplifier service manuals will state something like: “allow a sufficient warm up time†or “allow a 5 minute warm up period†before adjusting bias. The typical range of bias for Phase Linear amplifiers is approximately 300mv to 450mV. (NOTE: In most series 1 amp service manuals the upper end is listed around 400mV.) I call this type of bias adjustment a static bias adjustment. This is also done without the benefit of observing the crossover notch and utilizing the test equipment listed above. In the case of the 300 series II and PRO700's the bias was adjusted to approximately 385mV.

NOTE: I personally will not service any amplifier without observing the crossover notch. I use the test equipment noted above at a variety of frequencies and output levels. You never know what kinds of oscillations, noise, etc. you might encounter. Simple static bias adjustments will not reveal what is really going on inside your amplifier.

Hopefully all of this will all make sense. If not, please post your reply with your questions and I will do my best to answer.

By the way, there is a Carver M-400t amplifier service manual (page 48 I believe it is) which gives an approximate example of what the crossover notch should look like. The Phase Linear amps are slightly different. Someday I will post some pictures.

Ed
Hi guys,

Your thread is very Oldphaser.

The bias is at 380mv in static.
I've replaced the Q1 to Q4.

After several hours of listening, the sound is better in better.

Here is a new video :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAa15jkJoY8&feature=youtu.be

IMG_5157.jpg

IMG_5151.jpg

IMG_5150.jpg

The sound is in the good way...
Several recording soon on the other style...

Thank you everyone for your support.

IMG_4956.jpg
 
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