Twin D-500 Restore-a-Thon / Full-Comp WOPL upgrade (+ first a PL 400 S2 WOPLing / Proof of concept / Process debug )

[J!m]

I use the big blue solder sucker. It pulls about 90% or more on the first shot.

I do have wick for some jobs but this is working for me now.

 

[WOPL Sniffer]

I use the big blue solder sucker. It pulls about 90% or more on the first shot.

I do have wick for some jobs but this is working for me now.

Same as me...... I like to see how much pressure these guys with the electric de-soldering tools apply on the pads which pushes the pads into the fiberglass boards causing damage the average dude can't repair. Nozzle size is super important. Setting new pads on a single sided board or putting through holes into a double-sided are a long process and a pain.

I use an iron, pull the component, then use the plastic solder sucker or a piece of wick.

 

[Gepetto]

Same as me...... I like to see how much pressure these guys with the electric de-soldering tools apply on the pads which pushes the pads into the fiberglass boards causing damage the average dude can't repair. Nozzle size is super important. Setting new pads on a single sided board or putting through holes into a double-sided are a long process and a pain.

I use an iron, pull the component, then use the plastic solder sucker or a piece of wick.

I go even further. I destroy the component, clip every lead off of the component right at the component body, get the component out of the way leaving as long a lead stub as possible protruding from the PCB. Then with tweezers and a small iron, quickly remove the lead from the board. Often the iron tip itself will pull the lead along with it.

Once the board is clean of all leads, then use the solder sucker or wick to remove the solder from the hole. Much safer for the board to do it this way.

Pulling a single lead at a time from the board is far easier than grappling with multiple leads.

 

[J!m]

I heat-n-suck until the ho is clean, then remove the component. Some of these boards (Kenwood, in particular) like to leave the leads long, and fold them down over the trace for a while... These are fun to wrestle with but I have a technique now (certainly not approved by, well, anyone) to deal with them without destroying everything.

Sometimes I test the old stuff, but usually not.

If I rebuild the Aragon D2A board further, I may go with Joe's method. Those single-sided boards suck, and the solder melts hot. Bad combination...

 

[George S.]

Used the Hakko 470 this morning to pull the resistors I put in a light board to calibrate the 400s meters for 200 watts. Then put the original resistors back in. Looking at it, can't tell it was touched.
Just have to be careful, contact the lead for heat transfer, and very lightly touch the pad. Pull the trigger, big vacuum. Don't linger on the pad. I'll never use a spring vacuum sucker again if I can help it.
For plated through holes plugged with solder but no lead, fill it with solder until it domes. Touch the dome with the Hakko, wait, pull trigger, clean hole. I'm a believer.

 

[J!m]

Sounds cool.

 

[grapplesaw]

i have been following along on Triple D’s thread and not to hijack it I went on eBay to see what my desoldering station was going for. These are in the $750 range new I think. https://www.edsyn.com/product/DT/ZD500DX.html
I bought mine several years ago and would put it the 10 must have column

so I made an offer ona second one of $80 and won it. Seller said it works but parts alone worth that to me

we now hand back control of this thread

 

[D-500 Flogger]

Glen, when you have a $$$ tool (replacement cost) that really supports your workflow, and you can buy a spare parts donor for $$, that's definitely the way to go. (Anything that takes the fear of failure out of a tool in heavy rotation is a very savvy thing to do.)

Especially given the way everything is going so sketchy with the current supply chain issues. The more I watch what's going on, the more I find the concept of self-sufficiency appealing. (ie: worst-case scenario, being able to trade/barter mechanical/electrical/electronic skills in exchange for stuff I need.)
FWIW, along your lines I am also trying to build in some redundancy for key test equipment/tool pinch points in the lab.

That said, I sincerely hope that I'm being very overcautious about the situation we find ourselves in. Taking shifts using a schoolbus as a gate to the compound is not my idea of a dream retirement. :0)

Cheers --

3D

 

[J!m]

Well, I was grocery shopping today and the enquirer said WW 3 is days away, and since that’s the most reliable and reputable news source we have these days, I think your fears are well founded.

 

[D-500 Flogger]

The Solder Chronicles
​

As part of restarting the electronics hobby I took a quick inventory of what solder I had left from the last big wiring project. As it turned out, there was precious little, which meant that I had to spend 0 ergs of energy justifying starting fresh with the best solder available for purchase in 2022...


Can I leave? My head is full.

Drivetrain/cooling system/suspension/brake lines/brakes installed/pedals hung/body installed on frame...just gotta make up the wiring harness and you get to stop working on it & start driving it instead... :0)

NOTE: Every single wiring connection on the Factory Five Cobra replica was implemented High-Reliability style -- first, mechanically-secure connections (Western Union splices, correctly crimped-on ring terminals, etc), followed by soldering, 100% encased by heat-shrink weatherproofing, followed by 100% wiring harness protection via convoluted nylon tubing. {Instead of old-school gooey electrician's tape.} Wiring harness loomed/secured so that the harness weight is NOT supported [hung] from electrical connections to switches, gauges, light sockets, etc.)

Took a little longer during initial assembly, but thankfully the payoff has been -0- electrical failures in 20+ years of service. (I've troubleshot enough Lucas 'Prince of Darkness' failures on aging Triumphs & MGs to know exactly what I didn't want to look forward to. :0)

****

So, I found & read what our resident gurus recommended for solder. I was encouraged, for everything they recommended made perfect sense. (ie: As close as you can get yourself to the time-honored Kester "44" rosin-core 63/37 {% tin/lead} eutectic solder for those of us fixing/restoring old stuff out in the field. Note: If you are lucky enough like Gepetto to be working on mostly new/really clean stuff, then you can opt to use the "no-clean" 186 flux version.)

So, off I went to see where I could buy some solder. And although I wanted to go to with what was recommended in the aforementioned (2014) solder thread, something had changed since then -- everything on the bay & amazon was priced all over the place, plenty of lead-free solder available, normal (leaded) solder was in short supply, RoHS this, blah blah blah...

****

If you are already up to speed on all this and have a lifetime stash of the good stuff, then you are not the target audience for the next couple of postings. But if you are new or rejoining the hobby, and want to know why it's worth searching for the 'good stuff' & eschewing the higher temp/tin-whisker prone lead-free solder, then in the next posting I will share everything I've found on the subject.

The 3D Rabbit Hole

 

[J!m]

I can get “the good stuff” at a moment’s notice- the local place stocks it in several package sizes.

 

[D-500 Flogger]

Hi J!m,

During a previous conversation with my D-500 resto tour guide, (Glen Grapplesaw) he shared the fact that Octopart was a really good place to shop for electronic-related stuff. Sure enough, once I had figured out the mfg part number for my personal preference (Kester '44' rosin core, leaded 63/37 eutectic, 0.025" thickness = 24-6337-0018) I pumped that into Octopart & got the following screen's worth of info:



Look at the range of prices for the same exact 1-lb spool of solder? $26.90 to $93.45? Needless to say, even though Allied Electronics had 31 spools on the shelf, thanks to their uncompetitive offering they didn't win my business that day.

****

What I learned from all this is that leaded solder is no longer a commodity item where everyone charges the same, but the good customers can maybe charm their way into a 10% discount. :0) And that while the 'known good" reference solder can be had for ~$1.63/ounce (in 1 lb. spools) from stores specializing in supplying the electronics niche, there are sellers on the bay and amazon who will let you buy the same (claimed) solder an ounce at a time for a cool $12.49:


Suspicious, I clicked on the embedded "Visit the Kester Store" link, and sure enough, it did not go to the Kester store, but instead to their own page.
Buyer Beware. (And for all I know the stuff in this "specially repackaged by Tekline Supply" could actually be counterfeit cr@p, especially given their price & their bogus link.) Buyer Beware.

****

Bottom line? Just like always, nothing is more expensive than a lack of knowledge. Given the obvious price volatility these daze, Octopart is your friend. I've been checking there first in order to figure out the good street price...and then armed with this knowledge I wade through the bay and swim around the Amazon. And often as not I find myself buying from a legit business with the most competitive price following the link from Octopart itself. (!)

****

Hope this helps others who are coming up to speed and/or rejoining the hobby. And J!m, good informational statement, allowing me to riff on that.

Cheers -

3D

PS - Thanks Grapplesaw -- you saved me a lot of confusion (and a ton of bank) on just this 1-lb purchase for stocking the lab! :0)

 

[D-500 Flogger]

RoHS = The Return of an Old Enemy to Electronic Reliability
​

If you've ever decided on a plan of attack with the old saw, "If it ain't Broke, Don't Fix It", then you will appreciate the havoc that well-intentioned yet non-technical types have inflicted on those who are responsible for designing/manufacturing complex systems that need to be reliable in order to support our quality of life.

From ATMs to cell phone towers to traffic lights to nuclear plants to ambulances, planes, trains, & automobiles, hospitals, etc., high reliability electronic systems are more than just a feel-good statement or 1st-world luxury.

****

But in the early 2000s, the EU responded to the threat of pollution from discarded electronics by passing the RoHS Directive. (Restriction of Hazardous Substances) Starting in 2006, if you wanted to sell your product into the EU, then you needed to prove that your product was clean enough to wear the following:


Here's the list of banned chemicals. NOTE: How many total grams of solder is used in a typical automotive radio, computer, and/or the factory wiring harness? (~28 grams = 1 ounce) But what about the 30-50 lbs of lead in a conventional 12-volt battery? Oh yeah, car batteries are excluded from the ROHS Directive...they are covered by separate recycling laws. (!)

Don't get me wrong, if I can no longer buy a chrome bumper on my new car in order to protect the environment, I'm OK with that...since that doesn't affect the overall reliability of the vehicle. But the lead-free solder edict has no doubt affected anyone reading this, even if you weren't aware of exactly why your electronics widget suddenly packed it in for seemingly no reason at all.

Since pictures are worth a 1000 words, here's a few photos to introduce some of you to the lead-free 'tin-whisker' phenomenon:


(Taken from the excellent NASA reliability article on metal whiskers that spontaneously grow from pure metals - well worth a read.)

Obviously, large scale point-to-point wiring in a Marshall amp may rarely, if ever, suffer from tin whisker-induced shorts. On the other hand, the closer/smaller/finer the electronics layout, the more that these tiny conductive threads can create unintended interconnects between circuit board features:


Micro-photograph showing tin whiskers bridging the spaces between circuits.

If the NASA article just whetted your appetite for more, this link to an IBM white paper on the history of the tin whisker problem (with emphasis on research by Bell Labs back in the day) will give you the stuff you need in order to be the life of the party the next time you are hanging out with your geek posse. :0)

There's plenty more where that came from, but instead I'll just add a couple more thumbnails for your viewing pleasure:


SMD devices growing tin whiskers from the lead-free solder.


NOTE: The authors mentioned that these tin whiskers can be easily overlooked during a visual inspection...especially if you don't own a stereoscopic inspection microscope. Interestingly, depending upon the amount of current available in the circuit, the tin whisker can either create a new recurring intermittent (low current) all the way to a self-clearing plasma failure involving hundreds of amps. Well, geek -- Do You Feel Lucky? :0)


Once NASA became woke about metal whiskers, they did their own deep dive on the (then 18-year-old) Space Shuttle fleet, and came away with these photos. And if you read their report, even on the ground it seems that they traced a FOD failure inside a server to the conductive whiskers located on the underside of the raised-floor tiles in the computer room becoming dislodged & blown around in the cooling air until it ended up inside the computer & causing a short between logically-unrelated circuits.. (!)

****

I think this is a good place to stop. Now when you read about how some industries (like Aerospace) continue to fight for the use of leaded solder in electronics it will make more sense. And if you are repairing Mil-Spec gear then leaded solder is still specified in the Technical Orders.

And when the gurus in this forum recommend that you avoid lead-free solder, it's not just because of shiny solder connection vanity or trying to help you avoid throwing excessive heat into the leads of your spendy electronic components, lowering their useful lifespan in the process.

Lead-free solder is just bad juju. What can I say? Sometimes the road to unreliable electronics is paved with good intentions.
:0)

Hope this provided a little insight into the real-world reliability concerns from using sub-optimal solder in our treasured toys.

3D

EDIT: Following the lead of the European Union, California, NY, and like-minded states adopted similar RoHS laws. Nothing at the Federal level as far as I could figure out, but this isn't an 'us vs them' issue -- this even includes China. If you are thinking about stocking up on "the good stuff" now is a good time, for as we have seen, a lack of knowledge does not deter some from deciding to ban what we need in order to protect us from ourselves...

 

[D-500 Flogger]

File under you can't trust everything you see on the Internet:

I know from working on cars that the conventional 12v lead-acid batteries are heavy, but I wanted a quick ballpark on a range of weights. So I googled "12 volt car battery weight" and here's what I got as a response.

I had no idea that a fully-discharged battery could weigh up to 25 lbs. less than when it is fully charged.

What are they teaching at school these days? I thought that the movie Idiocracy was supposed to be a comedy, not a documentary...

 

[NeverSatisfied]

As usual 3D, you are a wealth of great information, especially to those of us who are starting their journeys. Thanks

 

[D-500 Flogger]

File under you can't trust everything you see on the Internet:

I know from working on cars that the conventional 12v lead-acid batteries are heavy, but I wanted a quick ballpark on a range of weights. So I googled "12 volt car battery weight" and here's what I got as a response.

I had no idea that a fully-discharged battery could weigh up to 25 lbs. less than when it is fully charged.

What are they teaching at school these days? I thought that the movie Idiocracy was supposed to be a comedy, not a documentary...

Hmmm -- what I pointed to yesterday at the Google level has already been swapped out? FWIW here's a clip of what I was referring to:



More & more it seems that when I'm trying to find real info on the internet it's like wading around in the sewage treatment plant searching for a fine box of chocolates...

;0)

 

[Vynuladikt]

That's incredible! So just how many electrons does it take to make up 25 pounds?

 

[WOPL Sniffer]

That's incredible! So just how many electrons does it take to make up 25 pounds?

HERE, you figure it out


The actual weight of an Electron is 9.05 x 10-28 grams, that's right, 9.05 times ten to the minus twenty eighth Grams

or

An electron is a tiny particle with a mass of 9.108 × 10−28 g and a negative charge. All neutral atoms contain electrons.

depending on if it's Tuesday or Wednesday

 

[J!m]

So, a decimal and 27 zeros in front of the nine.

 

[WOPL Sniffer]

So, a decimal and 27 zeros in front of the nine.

Don't make me use my Navy Math Jim........