PL400 S2, or 700 S2/700B

Turboj5525

Turboj5525

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Dec 18, 2021
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So I would love to hear pros, cons and opinions. I was going to run my marantz 2325 as a preamp and use some KLH kendalls I have. These speakers are rated for 250w. Just wondering if it will be a small improvement in headroom to go from the 2325 to the PL400. For this reason I decided I wanted the 700. I'm trying to spend less than $600 for just the amp and that's been difficult. I obviously have to throw the whole White Oak catalog at it after I get it also lol... That has me considering the 400. Let me know what you guys think. I watched all of Mark's videos on the tube where he did the upgrades from WO to the 400 and then the 700. I recall him mentioning the 400 being warmer sounding but also getting fairly hot after long sessions. I like to listen pretty loud so that also made me think 700. I may be over thinking it all and I'm sure I would be impressed with the 400. I would still like to know everyone's advice and opinions who actually have them and love them.
Thanks in advance everyone.
 
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I don’t have any PL gear, but I have learned that good sound doesn’t follow any “rules” per se.

when matching speakers to amplifier(s), more is better. Wider frequency response- better. More power- better.

My amps are only 250 watt rated; but now I run two, balanced, giving 500 watt rating. I do not listen any louder; however the massive headroom makes a massive difference.

I’m pretty sure I could incinerate the speakers if I unleashed the full destructive power of the amps but it’s not about that. The sonic improvement is not subtle.

My rule now is: ALWAYS have far more power available that the speakers “handle” or “need”. You’re only going to be listening to 10-20 watts most of the time anyway.
 
In stock, non WOPL’ed form, I like the sound of my 700s2 over my 400s2. Not a huge difference but the 700 seems more at ease and less stressed, which I assume is a function of more available power.
Wattsabundant (Don) is building a full WOPL 400s2 for me, so I will be able to compare the 3 of them in an A,B,C comparison. I expect the WOPL’ed 400 will outperform both of the stock amps.
Your speakers are relatively efficient so I would guess that a 400 will be plenty. Keep in mind the 400 does not have a power switch so you will need to make accommodations in your system for that.
 
J!m said:
I don’t have any PL gear, but I have learned that good sound doesn’t follow any “rules” per se.

when matching speakers to amplifier(s), more is better. Wider frequency response- better. More power- better.

My amps are only 250 watt rated; but now I run two, balanced, giving 500 watt rating. I do not listen any louder; however the massive headroom makes a massive difference.

I’m pretty sure I could incinerate the speakers if I unleashed the full destructive power of the amps but it’s not about that. The sonic improvement is not subtle.

My rule now is: ALWAYS have far more power available that the speakers “handle” or “need”. You’re only going to be listening to 10-20 watts most of the time anyway.
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I get that for sure. I agree with you completely. Atleast in my experience so far, more in those two categories (speaker frequency response and amp power) has made me happier.

Your point also answers another question I was wondering about as far as speaker rated power vs high powered amps. Sounds like you have been doing it this way without issue for a long time. I just have to respect the limits lol.
Thanks for the advice.
 
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NeverSatisfied said:
In stock, non WOPL’ed form, I like the sound of my 700s2 over my 400s2. Not a huge difference but the 700 seems more at ease and less stressed, which I assume is a function of more available power.
Wattsabundant (Don) is building a full WOPL 400s2 for me, so I will be able to compare the 3 of them in an A,B,C comparison. I expect the WOPL’ed 400 will outperform both of the stock amps.
Your speakers are relatively efficient so I would guess that a 400 will be plenty. Keep in mind the 400 does not have a power switch so you will need to make accommodations in your system for that.
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I'm excited to hear your thoughts after listening as I plan to do all the WO upgrades to either unit. I was leaning toward the 700 thinking that it would have so much headroom I wouldn't ever feel like I was stressing anything. I did find this today... he has offered me this deal. Not sure if it's a good deal or not. What do you guys think? Screenshot_20211219-130622_BlueMail.jpg
 
Seller says it is in working order and has been tested. Seller is a stereo shop not an individual. If that helps. Cosmetics seem 7 out of 10 or so. Definitely nice enough for me.
 
laatsch55 said:
Remember, cosmetics are now a solvavable problem. Faceplates, chassisd, heatsinks, are all available for the 700B's...
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I definitely want to put the black face on it as I just received the one I ordered for my 2325. They would look perfect together lol. So yes you have a good point there. Honestly I want one so bad I would probably look at one that bounced down the highway at some point if it were fixable lol...
So what do you think of the price?
 
I wanted to make another comment on amp and speaker pairing, if you all will forgive the transgression toward the original topic (we DO have standards of full derailment here I realize)

Anyway, it occurred to me, or perhaps a freak synaptic connection, that back in the 80’s it was not uncommon to have under power amps popping tweeters. So, for example, 200 watt rated speakers with a 100watt amp. The high frequency clipping of the amplifier (“voltage clipping” I think it was called?) would quite easily slay a tweeter. Even though the speakers could “handle” more wattage; they couldn’t handle that crap.

A friend of mine is a (phenomenal) bass player who makes his own instruments and speakers. (He worked in my shop on some of his crazy-ass projects and I helped him do the compound angle cuts for his folded horn)

Anyway, one trick he used to do was to add a light bulb to the tweeter (he ran a horn along with his (10-15 inch) main driver(s)) to avoid this problem. maybe it would work on a home speaker too?
 
J!m said:
I wanted to make another comment on amp and speaker pairing, if you all will forgive the transgression toward the original topic (we DO have standards of full derailment here I realize)

Anyway, it occurred to me, or perhaps a freak synaptic connection, that back in the 80’s it was not uncommon to have under power amps popping tweeters. So, for example, 200 watt rated speakers with a 100watt amp. The high frequency clipping of the amplifier (“voltage clipping” I think it was called?) would quite easily slay a tweeter. Even though the speakers could “handle” more wattage; they couldn’t handle that crap.

A friend of mine is a (phenomenal) bass player who makes his own instruments and speakers. (He worked in my shop on some of his crazy-ass projects and I helped him do the compound angle cuts for his folded horn)

Anyway, one trick he used to do was to add a light bulb to the tweeter (he ran a horn along with his (10-15 inch) main driver(s)) to avoid this problem. maybe it would work on a home speaker too?
Click to expand...
Interesting, never thought of that but it makes sense.
 
I have one of the most efficient speakers out there. The K's are phenomenal..but I can and do wound drivers when I get ridiculous. Usually when I'm showing it off to someone. But I've also learned, keeping the voicecoils cooled by giving them a break after each song, AND NOT CLIPPING them they will take wayyyyy more power than they should. A clip appears as DC to a speaker, and that is death. Yes with the wattage we play with we can simply overpower them. I've used small amps and I've used big amps, and I'll take the big, clean amp every time. Headroom is a big deal with me as with you Davis, chasing that "live" transient. I have blown woofs, mids and tweets, mainly being stupid about it, because they will let you know you have gone too far, if you're fast enough to catch it. Dynamic range baby....
 
So word on the street is you are looking for a 700B? I have a "few" of them. (see below). And that doesn't include 4 more that are out of the picture acquired since then. I have them in various states and various versions. All are clean and fully functional however.

What is your end-goal if I may ask? I usually don't acquire non-working amps. So if you plan to gut it and white oak it, I won't be of much use to you since I can't give them away for a song. But I'll send you more in a PM if your interested.

By the way, welcome to the forum. Glad to have you here. I also have been part of many forums over the years and this one without exception is the BEST and greatest one you could be on. 99% of the individuals here will NOT tear you down with their "I'm smarter than you at this" B.S. so you can feel confidant to ask ANY question without being chastised for it. (Well maybe a friendly ribbing or two) but that's it. You will LEARN a hell of a lot more here than what most schools will teach you. Right or wrong! Glad to have you aboard.

IMG_E2703.JPG
 
Phase Linear Phanatic said:
So word on the street is you are looking for a 700B? I have a "few" of them. (see below). And that doesn't include 4 more that are out of the picture acquired since then. I have them in various states and various versions. All are clean and fully functional however.

What is your end-goal if I may ask? I usually don't acquire non-working amps. So if you plan to gut it and white oak it, I won't be of much use to you since I can't give them away for a song. But I'll send you more in a PM if your interested.

By the way, welcome to the forum. Glad to have you here. I also have been part of many forums over the years and this one without exception is the BEST and greatest one you could be on. 99% of the individuals here will NOT tear you down with their "I'm smarter than you at this" B.S. so you can feel confidant to ask ANY question without being chastised for it. (Well maybe a friendly ribbing or two) but that's it. You will LEARN a hell of a lot more here than what most schools will teach you. Right or wrong! Glad to have you aboard.

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I'm betting the neighborhood goes dark when you turn the beautiful amps on. Magnificent!
 
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