Phase Linear and Pink Floyd
- Thread starter laatsch55
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I have been looking on and off all day for the forum I read it in, something about 40 blue faceplate 400s were made for some company. Had to do with an article about the flying S4 setups and the amps used (I think). Maybe DIY Forum??? I deleted my history yesterday or I would post the link. I could have sworn there was a picture of one here on the board along with a purple. On AK, a guy was asking if anyone see's a blue faceplate version to contact him awhile back also
I am not aware of any Clair S4 setups using Phase Linear 400's.
Is the posting below on Audio Karma the one you were thinking of?:
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/need-faceplate-part-phase-linear-700b.27311/
Ed
Is the posting below on Audio Karma the one you were thinking of?:
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/need-faceplate-part-phase-linear-700b.27311/
Ed
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Hi, shame on me for keeping silence for so long. I missed you All. As always - good reading on this thread!
I found this note in my files on Bob Carver, while his name was mentioned above:
[...]
In 1972, Robert Carver, then president of Phase Linear Corporation, published a paper outlining Phase Linear’s research into sonic differences between power amplifiers. This was by way of explaining why his company had launched a model producing what seemed an outrageous 350 watts/ch. Back then, it was described as a ‘700 watt’ amplifier by adding-together the power capability both channels, or else by citing ‘peak’ power.
Re-appraising power
In his 1972 paper, Carver cites a series of measurements which drive home a fact that was then less well known than it should be: that the ‘loudness’ capability of a power amplifier can be substantially affected by the supply rails’ regulation and voltage. This is at least one way in which, for a given loudspeaker, the highest undistorted sound level (whether experienced or measured) doesn’t necessarily fol- low the amplifier’s continuous rated power.
PSU dynamics
Carver noted that this was particularly true if the amplifier’s power supply was fairly ‘soft’, i.e. one exhibiting significant voltage sag on continuous drive, thanks to an undersized transformer, or reservoir capacitors. For example, an amplifier rated for a continuous 100 watts (into 8 ohms) with a badly soggy supply dropping from +65v to +45v on load, could sound louder on music passages, than a 200 watt amplifier (again into 8 ohms), with tightly regulated rails of + 57v. Although Bob Carver wasn’t the first person to stumble across the effect, judging by what he implemented, he clearly glimpsed consequences that others didn’t. Subsequently, the effect was recognised as ‘dynamic headroom’.
Dynamic headroom
For domestic Hi-Fi in the US, the IHF (Inst. of Hi-Fidelity) defined dynamic head- room nearly two decades ago, in their IHF 202 specification. It’s the maximum average (or short term ‘rms’) power available for just 20mS every 500mS, beyond the rated continuous power. Sometimes it’s called ‘burst power’. Since 1987, there’s been documentary evidence of something amplifier designers and audiophiles have long suspected: That music’s peak SPL requirements can extend in bursts to 300mS and beyond, with a 20% duty cycle, ie. lengthy transient bursts can recur every 1 to 2 seconds.
[...]
I found this note in my files on Bob Carver, while his name was mentioned above:
[...]
In 1972, Robert Carver, then president of Phase Linear Corporation, published a paper outlining Phase Linear’s research into sonic differences between power amplifiers. This was by way of explaining why his company had launched a model producing what seemed an outrageous 350 watts/ch. Back then, it was described as a ‘700 watt’ amplifier by adding-together the power capability both channels, or else by citing ‘peak’ power.
Re-appraising power
In his 1972 paper, Carver cites a series of measurements which drive home a fact that was then less well known than it should be: that the ‘loudness’ capability of a power amplifier can be substantially affected by the supply rails’ regulation and voltage. This is at least one way in which, for a given loudspeaker, the highest undistorted sound level (whether experienced or measured) doesn’t necessarily fol- low the amplifier’s continuous rated power.
PSU dynamics
Carver noted that this was particularly true if the amplifier’s power supply was fairly ‘soft’, i.e. one exhibiting significant voltage sag on continuous drive, thanks to an undersized transformer, or reservoir capacitors. For example, an amplifier rated for a continuous 100 watts (into 8 ohms) with a badly soggy supply dropping from +65v to +45v on load, could sound louder on music passages, than a 200 watt amplifier (again into 8 ohms), with tightly regulated rails of + 57v. Although Bob Carver wasn’t the first person to stumble across the effect, judging by what he implemented, he clearly glimpsed consequences that others didn’t. Subsequently, the effect was recognised as ‘dynamic headroom’.
Dynamic headroom
For domestic Hi-Fi in the US, the IHF (Inst. of Hi-Fidelity) defined dynamic head- room nearly two decades ago, in their IHF 202 specification. It’s the maximum average (or short term ‘rms’) power available for just 20mS every 500mS, beyond the rated continuous power. Sometimes it’s called ‘burst power’. Since 1987, there’s been documentary evidence of something amplifier designers and audiophiles have long suspected: That music’s peak SPL requirements can extend in bursts to 300mS and beyond, with a 20% duty cycle, ie. lengthy transient bursts can recur every 1 to 2 seconds.
[...]
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Phase Linear and Pink Floyd - cont.
Have a look at "Sound on stage by Pink Floyd" article from Studio Sound, August 1978 (Studio Sound, 08.1978). Key pages attached...
Have a look at "Sound on stage by Pink Floyd" article from Studio Sound, August 1978 (Studio Sound, 08.1978). Key pages attached...
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Pink Floyd’s Britannia Row Studios - the story continued
Just to recall - Pink Floyd acquired 35 Britannia Row, Islington, London and encouraged their crew to rent out their equipment to other bands and artists while they take a break from touring. The crew included Robbie Williams, Mick Kluczynski, Mark Fisher, Jonathan Park and Graeme Fleming. Gerry Fradley was amongst this group and still works for us to this day, as does his son Laurie.
source: Britannia Row History
Pink Floyd drummer Nick Mason eventually assumed full ownership of the studio. In the early 1990s, he sold the business to Kate Koumi, who had been managing it since the mid-1980s. Koumi relocated the studio in 1995 to Wandsworth Bridge Road in Fulham, where it operated for the next 20 years. It closed in September 2015 and was converted into flats...
source: The end of Britannia Row Studios
In this one of the most famous recording studios monitors were powered by Phase Linear Amps - see the picture attached…
source: Britaia Row Studios Advert
Just to recall - Pink Floyd acquired 35 Britannia Row, Islington, London and encouraged their crew to rent out their equipment to other bands and artists while they take a break from touring. The crew included Robbie Williams, Mick Kluczynski, Mark Fisher, Jonathan Park and Graeme Fleming. Gerry Fradley was amongst this group and still works for us to this day, as does his son Laurie.
source: Britannia Row History
Pink Floyd drummer Nick Mason eventually assumed full ownership of the studio. In the early 1990s, he sold the business to Kate Koumi, who had been managing it since the mid-1980s. Koumi relocated the studio in 1995 to Wandsworth Bridge Road in Fulham, where it operated for the next 20 years. It closed in September 2015 and was converted into flats...
source: The end of Britannia Row Studios
In this one of the most famous recording studios monitors were powered by Phase Linear Amps - see the picture attached…
source: Britaia Row Studios Advert
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PINK FLOYD: PERFORMANCE & TECHNOLOGY’ - another interesting document, where Phase Linear gears were mentioned: Link to the file
It is written by Mark Cunningham as a study of the evolution of the band’s concert production and design from their early days in psychedelic London through to their groundbreaking live presentation of The Wall and later tours including The Division Bell in 1994. Featuring interviews with key touring personnel and observations from the band members themselves, this fully illustrated omnibus is launched on January 23rd 2017 with a free sample from the series – ‘ANIMAL INSTINCTS’ is a study of the 1977 European and North American tours that followed the release of Pink Floyd’s album, Animals. Information on the remainder of the series will follow soon from Bear & Bones Publishing.
Phase Linear legacy is found on page 25 of the document - attached...
It is written by Mark Cunningham as a study of the evolution of the band’s concert production and design from their early days in psychedelic London through to their groundbreaking live presentation of The Wall and later tours including The Division Bell in 1994. Featuring interviews with key touring personnel and observations from the band members themselves, this fully illustrated omnibus is launched on January 23rd 2017 with a free sample from the series – ‘ANIMAL INSTINCTS’ is a study of the 1977 European and North American tours that followed the release of Pink Floyd’s album, Animals. Information on the remainder of the series will follow soon from Bear & Bones Publishing.
Phase Linear legacy is found on page 25 of the document - attached...
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Peter Watts - Pink Floyd - Phase Linear Sound
Behind Phase Linear amp racks used for Pink Floyd touring there was one genius engineer, who’s name is Peter Watts. It was his idea to setup quadrophonic PA supported by PL amps. An excerpt from his interview back in 1973:
[…] „That’s half the amplifiers we use on the P.A. – that’s 6 Phase Linear 700s,right, an electronic cross over,and a compressor and we use all that each side of the stage to drive the main P.A. At the mixer we use 4 Phase Linear 400s and 2 Phase Linear 700s to drive the quad system.” […]
Source: Interview with Pater Watts
You may also hear his voice on The Dark Side Of The Moon - a must see YouTube clip, it’s amazing..... : Memories of Peter Watts by his friend, tour manager for Emerson Lake & Palmer
Have a great watching!
Behind Phase Linear amp racks used for Pink Floyd touring there was one genius engineer, who’s name is Peter Watts. It was his idea to setup quadrophonic PA supported by PL amps. An excerpt from his interview back in 1973:
[…] „That’s half the amplifiers we use on the P.A. – that’s 6 Phase Linear 700s,right, an electronic cross over,and a compressor and we use all that each side of the stage to drive the main P.A. At the mixer we use 4 Phase Linear 400s and 2 Phase Linear 700s to drive the quad system.” […]
Source: Interview with Pater Watts
You may also hear his voice on The Dark Side Of The Moon - a must see YouTube clip, it’s amazing..... : Memories of Peter Watts by his friend, tour manager for Emerson Lake & Palmer
Have a great watching!
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Quadraphonic sound of Pink Floyd
1967: Pink Floyd performs the first-ever surround sound concert at "Games for May," a lavish affair at London's Queen Elizabeth Hall where the band debuts its custom-made quadraphonic speaker system. The technological breakthrough not only amazes and confuses the mass of stoned concert-goers, but it goes on to raise the standard of what audiences would come to expect from a live rock performance.
[...]
Behind cutting edge concert effects there was the famed AZIMUTH COORDINATOR, quadraphonic pan-pots designed for PINK FLOYD by engineer Bernard Speight. This device allowed Pink Floyds Front of house (FOH) live sound engineers to literally swirl sound AROUND THE ENTIRE audience through 4 PA speaker towers located at all corners of the venue.
[...]
"We adapted that idea, but instead of having a wall of columns along the back of the stage, we split our system left and right and made that the principle for our PA," recalls Kluczynski. "This meant we were up to 36 foot high to gain the projection required, whereas until then we had been stacking horizontally simply because of the nature of the venues. Our quad development paralleled these changes."
[...]
The Azimuth device was in truth a quad-mono system rather than a true quadrophonic system. By this I mean, it couldn't sent unique audio to each of the four channels, or even a double-stereo signal. A true quadraphonic system would send different audio to each of the four channels. What the Azimuth Coordinator could send was a mono feed to four different channels in varying degrees. As such, it utilized a simple joystick device to alter the 'volume' (or voltage) sent to four different audio channels. As such, it was basically four independent volume controls ganged to a single control device, in this case a rather nifty joystick. The middle terminal on each set of three lugs would be the common mono audio source. Each left hand terminal of each set of three lugs would be the 'output', and each right hand terminal on each set of three lugs would be ground (or earth, depending on where you live). Quite how you connect this system up without getting ground loops and other humming is beyond many professionals. Probably you would need to buffer each audio output accordingly to stop cross-talk between the channels, ground hum and general loss of signal. You could make this a passive system (ie, it doesn't need an external power supply), but the signal losses would be pretty high.
[…]
Now, the original design looks crude as all hell. It appears to have two channels. One was dedicated to panning the organ and one was dedicated to panning Dave's guitar. It is based on audience recordings of the 1970-71 era when the organ and guitar were panned individually (not easy to hear on recordings, but their volumes fluctuate more than the drums or bass appear to). You could also feed a mono tape-recording to one of these channels. Possibly the cheesy push buttons allowed the selection of one or more audio input source, probably from two banks of four 1/4 inch input jacks on the back. Unless Pink Floyd used a custom cable of some sort I hate to think how they ducted the quad signal back out of the thing. XLR jacks? For reference, there were at least two Azimuth Coordinators. One from 1970 of Rick Wright's organ setup (Farfisa Compact deluxe, Farfisa reverb and amp unit, then a single-channel Azimuth Coordinator) and the second one - a Binson echorec.
[…]
Was this an inspiration for Bob Carver PL-4000 augmented sound balance feature?
Source:
Pink Floyd PA with the Azimuth Coordinator story
Pink Floyd Quadrophonic Labels
1967: Pink Floyd performs the first-ever surround sound concert at "Games for May," a lavish affair at London's Queen Elizabeth Hall where the band debuts its custom-made quadraphonic speaker system. The technological breakthrough not only amazes and confuses the mass of stoned concert-goers, but it goes on to raise the standard of what audiences would come to expect from a live rock performance.
[...]
Behind cutting edge concert effects there was the famed AZIMUTH COORDINATOR, quadraphonic pan-pots designed for PINK FLOYD by engineer Bernard Speight. This device allowed Pink Floyds Front of house (FOH) live sound engineers to literally swirl sound AROUND THE ENTIRE audience through 4 PA speaker towers located at all corners of the venue.
[...]
"We adapted that idea, but instead of having a wall of columns along the back of the stage, we split our system left and right and made that the principle for our PA," recalls Kluczynski. "This meant we were up to 36 foot high to gain the projection required, whereas until then we had been stacking horizontally simply because of the nature of the venues. Our quad development paralleled these changes."
[...]
The Azimuth device was in truth a quad-mono system rather than a true quadrophonic system. By this I mean, it couldn't sent unique audio to each of the four channels, or even a double-stereo signal. A true quadraphonic system would send different audio to each of the four channels. What the Azimuth Coordinator could send was a mono feed to four different channels in varying degrees. As such, it utilized a simple joystick device to alter the 'volume' (or voltage) sent to four different audio channels. As such, it was basically four independent volume controls ganged to a single control device, in this case a rather nifty joystick. The middle terminal on each set of three lugs would be the common mono audio source. Each left hand terminal of each set of three lugs would be the 'output', and each right hand terminal on each set of three lugs would be ground (or earth, depending on where you live). Quite how you connect this system up without getting ground loops and other humming is beyond many professionals. Probably you would need to buffer each audio output accordingly to stop cross-talk between the channels, ground hum and general loss of signal. You could make this a passive system (ie, it doesn't need an external power supply), but the signal losses would be pretty high.
[…]
Now, the original design looks crude as all hell. It appears to have two channels. One was dedicated to panning the organ and one was dedicated to panning Dave's guitar. It is based on audience recordings of the 1970-71 era when the organ and guitar were panned individually (not easy to hear on recordings, but their volumes fluctuate more than the drums or bass appear to). You could also feed a mono tape-recording to one of these channels. Possibly the cheesy push buttons allowed the selection of one or more audio input source, probably from two banks of four 1/4 inch input jacks on the back. Unless Pink Floyd used a custom cable of some sort I hate to think how they ducted the quad signal back out of the thing. XLR jacks? For reference, there were at least two Azimuth Coordinators. One from 1970 of Rick Wright's organ setup (Farfisa Compact deluxe, Farfisa reverb and amp unit, then a single-channel Azimuth Coordinator) and the second one - a Binson echorec.
[…]
Was this an inspiration for Bob Carver PL-4000 augmented sound balance feature?
Source:
Pink Floyd PA with the Azimuth Coordinator story
Pink Floyd Quadrophonic Labels
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Ask Bob Heil - interview from June 29th, 2008
Bob Heil - an American sound and radio engineer most well known for creating the template for modern rock sound systems. He founded the company Heil Sound in 1966, which went on to create unique touring sound systems for many famous bands.
He was using PL400 and PL700 amps for his sound PA setups too: Heil Sound flyer
He also invented "Powered Talk Box" device. David Gilmour of Pink Floyd used the talk box on "Pigs (Three Different Ones)" from their 1977 Animals album, and on "Keep Talking" from 1994's The Division Bell.
[...]
Q:
With regards to the Phase Linear amps. Occasionally I have other engineers come here to work. I use, a Phase linear 400 amp for my main monitors. An engineer once told me that they nicknamed them "flame linear" because when they blow, they take out the spkrs too. My fingers are crossed, but has anyone ever heard of this before?
A (Bob Heil):
Your friends are correct. The Phase Linear amplifiers sounded super and produced a lot of output. They sounded exceptional because they had NO protection circuit. So many of the early high powered amplifiers (especially first generation) had a simple 'crowbar' protection circuit across the output and when the amplifiers were right at clipping, that dang circuit would produced a 'crunchy' or 'clicky' sound to me just as the crowbar was about to reduce the power OR - if way too much output, would turn the amplifier off. I always hated that but what could you do? Bob Carver just removed it and you just had to be very careful not to run the baby any more than about + 4dB into it's calibrated VU meter.
HOWEVER - if you continued to run it higher than that, the output devices would short placing ALL of it's +50 volts DC on your speaker line. Go back and read the story that Bill Mueller told about a Humble Pie show that this happened and we had an additional fireworks show from one of our left side speakers! The crowd thought that was cool....we didn't as we lost an amplifier and a pair of JBL 2204 JBL speakers.
One thing you can do, Chance is to measure the current of your speaker line when you are in the 'hump' mode....as loud as you would ever crank things. Place an in line fuse in that speaker lead and fuse it about 1/2 amp UNDER that limit. This should help you.
We also built a 'manifold' from fiberglass that fit perfectly over the entire heat sink. This manifold had a 5" square opening that expanded out to the edges of the heat sink. The manifold was pop riveted onto the Phase Linear and a 5" box fan was mounted on that opening. This REALLY helped to tame the Phase Linears a lot.
Piece of trivia.....go back early in this session. There is a picture of the original purple Talk Box. That was made from the mold of this manifold. When Joe, Krinkle (Richard Kruzekamp) came up with this consumer Talk Box, I need an enclosure - FAST, so my fiberglass guy took that manifold, closed up the 5" opening. Made a 1.5" hole for the screw on driver and LA LA - we had the Heil Talk Box - at least the first 50. I then had our metal shop build the metal enclosure that has been used over these many decades.
[...]
Source:
Ask Bob Heil
Bob Heil - an American sound and radio engineer most well known for creating the template for modern rock sound systems. He founded the company Heil Sound in 1966, which went on to create unique touring sound systems for many famous bands.
He was using PL400 and PL700 amps for his sound PA setups too: Heil Sound flyer
He also invented "Powered Talk Box" device. David Gilmour of Pink Floyd used the talk box on "Pigs (Three Different Ones)" from their 1977 Animals album, and on "Keep Talking" from 1994's The Division Bell.
[...]
Q:
With regards to the Phase Linear amps. Occasionally I have other engineers come here to work. I use, a Phase linear 400 amp for my main monitors. An engineer once told me that they nicknamed them "flame linear" because when they blow, they take out the spkrs too. My fingers are crossed, but has anyone ever heard of this before?
A (Bob Heil):
Your friends are correct. The Phase Linear amplifiers sounded super and produced a lot of output. They sounded exceptional because they had NO protection circuit. So many of the early high powered amplifiers (especially first generation) had a simple 'crowbar' protection circuit across the output and when the amplifiers were right at clipping, that dang circuit would produced a 'crunchy' or 'clicky' sound to me just as the crowbar was about to reduce the power OR - if way too much output, would turn the amplifier off. I always hated that but what could you do? Bob Carver just removed it and you just had to be very careful not to run the baby any more than about + 4dB into it's calibrated VU meter.
HOWEVER - if you continued to run it higher than that, the output devices would short placing ALL of it's +50 volts DC on your speaker line. Go back and read the story that Bill Mueller told about a Humble Pie show that this happened and we had an additional fireworks show from one of our left side speakers! The crowd thought that was cool....we didn't as we lost an amplifier and a pair of JBL 2204 JBL speakers.
One thing you can do, Chance is to measure the current of your speaker line when you are in the 'hump' mode....as loud as you would ever crank things. Place an in line fuse in that speaker lead and fuse it about 1/2 amp UNDER that limit. This should help you.
We also built a 'manifold' from fiberglass that fit perfectly over the entire heat sink. This manifold had a 5" square opening that expanded out to the edges of the heat sink. The manifold was pop riveted onto the Phase Linear and a 5" box fan was mounted on that opening. This REALLY helped to tame the Phase Linears a lot.
Piece of trivia.....go back early in this session. There is a picture of the original purple Talk Box. That was made from the mold of this manifold. When Joe, Krinkle (Richard Kruzekamp) came up with this consumer Talk Box, I need an enclosure - FAST, so my fiberglass guy took that manifold, closed up the 5" opening. Made a 1.5" hole for the screw on driver and LA LA - we had the Heil Talk Box - at least the first 50. I then had our metal shop build the metal enclosure that has been used over these many decades.
[...]
Source:
Ask Bob Heil
