phase linear 400

[gene french]

my son was sick...he caught some crud from the neighbors...here it is called gripe....grip ee ....and he asked that i go help him with the milking...
he has about 15 to milk by hand...we have a machine less than 3 years old...and the vacuum tank has corroded through....we havent found a replacement tank as of yet...think we want something plastic or aluminum....when he was done i was prepping a second chicken pen....for more chickens and less pigs....
a friend called early while i was finishing up on a second chicken pen....seems i bought a nice scanner for my ram diesel....
the scanner is what summit racing recommended that i have for that truck, not wanting to spend over a grand....had it a few years...and basically i seem to use it less than everybody else...lol...
....word got out that i had one...so...i called the last guy that i loaned it to...he then took it to my mechanic buddy....the guy came to pick me up...and we went to get the scanner and go look at his truck....my mechanic said he did not know how to work it...so i had to go...anyway....seems they changed the language in the scanner to spanish....well, i guess i understand...and will take me a day to figure out how to put it back to english....lol
the guy with the bad truck is from cuba... been living here very long time...he has an 05 chevy 1 ton dually with allison tranny (the automotive tranny) and isuzu duramax diesel....
cranks, runs for one or two seconds and shuts down...well, it popped up 23 codes on the motor....23....not counting the 5 codes i got on the abs system....i did not run the srs codes....he had enough bad news for one day....i helped him a few months ago to get that thing cranked...but, he just does not maintain the truck very well, as you probably have picked up....
the first 8 codes were injector errors....we counted....the duramax has 8 injectors....hmmmm....maybe there is a pattern breaking here....
anyway...we cleared the codes...and i knew like arnold, they would be back...and of course it cranked and died after a second or two....
beating the gas tank did not shake up the pump....we had positive fuel pressure and the hand pump on the diesel filter was hard....it was charged....
so, it is not a fuel delivery problem....and since this thing has electric injectors....well, another bucket of worms....i had a cheaper scanner in my truck console....went to the body shop, kissed my truck, picked up the scanner and returned to the other shop....where i left the scanner with the mechanics standing around....and i told them if they needed the big boy, they are welcome to it also...when i got home i changed out a wifi light switch in the kitchen that one led blinks on and off at random intervals....i do morse, but could not discern any pattern to the blinking...lol
anyway got all of that changed out and reprogrammed....when i die no one will be able to turn on the lights .... lol
now i am experimenting with the two 400s and switching in/out the two schiit preamps....i have a magni 3+ and a heresy....
to see if i can tell any difference....i have another dac ...chinese i am afraid...that i will try to eleminate the first ab switch...
hope i dont smoke nothing....
i did get a tracking number from mr. watts...and of course mr. joe advised me that my product was in the gentle care of the usps...
lol....waiting patiently on the mail man....
other than that....life is good...
take care...dont despair .... there is a wopl to finish and a few spare machines to rearrange....so maybe 1 wopl 1 8 fin and the old 4 fin...
i will go to calangas and get some aluminum bent to make more fins...so all will look nice....rob repainted the transformer on the eight fin...and it perfectly matches the anodized aluminum....i will try the same on the extra fins...should be easily done....
i bought more parts from ebay .... someone doing a wopl evidently and i bought the old outputs and another driver board....
it supposedly was working....and i would like to substitute that pl14 board....not sure is a or b....for the 400c driver board....
and i want to measure the voltages...but, with the new caps installed....then pick the strongest one for the wopl....
any advice joe on swapping the 400c board for a newer pl14??? i think you said basically they were the same animal....
but, i think the newer style is more mainstream....
help me out here mr. joe...
take care...

 

[Gepetto]

The PL14 was a mainstream board Gene, more of them in PL400s than any thing else for the Series 1. They are all basically the same but over time they figured out how to make them cheaper and cheaper. The PL36 is the pinnacle of the low cost efforts at PL.

 

[gene french]

ok...more experimenting...i have a bluetooth receiver/transmitter with optical hub...it served as the second dac...i came off of that optical out to the schiit dac and preamp....i was able to eliminate the ab switch...i set the volumes as equal as i could get them...similar to my sx/4 fin experiment...
now maria nor i can tell any difference...the 4 fin needs more input amplitude to equal the 8 fin...not very scientific...but it will have to surfice!!
will do more experimenting!!!
here is a small clip of the setup...getting there!!!

 

[gene french]

The PL14 was a mainstream board Gene, more of them in PL400s than any thing else for the Series 1. They are all basically the same but over time they figured out how to make them cheaper and cheaper. The PL36 is the pinnacle of the low cost efforts at PL.

and of course, i have one of those too...lol

 

[gene french]

i should have 2 working pl14 boards ....
or at least that is what george told me...
and the second on ebay reported was working...
but, clearly a wopl....as he sold the board backplane lightboard and output transistors...
anyway....i am curious as to why the 8 fin has more output with less input....
others mentioned rail voltage was a direct correlation to output...
do the newer boards help much??
we shall see...

 

[Gepetto]

i should have 2 working pl14 boards ....
or at least that is what george told me...
and the second on ebay reported was working...
but, clearly a wopl....as he sold the board backplane lightboard and output transistors...
anyway....i am curious as to why the 8 fin has more output with less input....
others mentioned rail voltage was a direct correlation to output...
do the newer boards help much??
we shall see...

Nope. Has little to do with rail voltage

 

[gene french]

thanks....
therefore the 400c board will produce practically speaking the same output as the pl14s....basically....
i am really enjoying my 400s....
cant wait for the wopl...
ordered some input jacks from watts

 

[Gepetto]

The 400C board has an input attenuation factor of 0.975 times a global gain of 22 for a resulting 21.45 V/V
The PL14 board has an input attenuation factor of 0.795 times a global gain of 44.4 for a resulting 35.3 V/V

That is why you need to put more signal into your 4 fin unit (PL400C) when compared to the 8 fin unit (PL14)

 

[Gepetto]

Has nada to do with rail voltage...

 

[gene french]

The 400C board has an input attenuation factor of 0.975 times a global gain of 22 for a resulting 21.45 V/V
The PL14 board has an input attenuation factor of 0.795 times a global gain of 44.4 for a resulting 35.3 V/V

That is why you need to put more signal into your 4 fin unit (PL400C) when compared to the 8 fin unit (PL14)

i really knew that....just wanted see if anybody else knew....lol

does that mean a higher amplitude at full bore with the pl14 over the 400c...i would think so...

 

[MusicSteve]

The 400C board has an input attenuation factor of 0.975 times a global gain of 22 for a resulting 21.45 V/V
The PL14 board has an input attenuation factor of 0.795 times a global gain of 44.4 for a resulting 35.3 V/V
That is why you need to put more signal into your 4 fin unit (PL400C) when compared to the 8 fin unit (PL14)

So how does the PL14 compare to the WOAD PL14_20G1?

also looking at the Capacitor upgrade kit for the 400II 2 x 15,000 uF/100V/105C
I still need to figuring out how many kits I want at this time.
Do you still them in have stock? shelf Life?

I used 4 8200uf I bought years ago, looks like built in 2002, I reformed them but they seems like they drop the rail voltage quicker at Higher output Volume.
I can't find any data sheet for them Nippon Chemi-Con SMH 85C Ni (or lost in another HD somewhere I think)
what do you think?
But their over 20 years old? (but new old stock lol)

 

[Gepetto]

i really knew that....just wanted see if anybody else knew....lol

does that mean a higher amplitude at full bore with the pl14 over the 400c...i would think so...

It just means that you need a higher output preamp signal to drive it to full output

 

[Gepetto]

So how does the PL14 compare to the WOAD PL14_20G1?

also looking at the Capacitor upgrade kit for the 400II 2 x 15,000 uF/100V/105C
I still need to figuring out how many kits I want at this time.
Do you still them in have stock? shelf Life?

I used 4 8200uf I bought years ago, looks like built in 2002, I reformed them but they seems like they drop the rail voltage quicker at Higher output Volume.
I can't find any data sheet for them Nippon Chemi-Con SMH 85C Ni (or lost in another HD somewhere I think)
what do you think?
But their over 20 years old? (but new old stock lol)

Yes they are in stock

 

[Gepetto]

So how does the PL14 compare to the WOAD PL14_20G1?

also looking at the Capacitor upgrade kit for the 400II 2 x 15,000 uF/100V/105C
I still need to figuring out how many kits I want at this time.
Do you still them in have stock? shelf Life?

I used 4 8200uf I bought years ago, looks like built in 2002, I reformed them but they seems like they drop the rail voltage quicker at Higher output Volume.
I can't find any data sheet for them Nippon Chemi-Con SMH 85C Ni (or lost in another HD somewhere I think)
what do you think?
But their over 20 years old? (but new old stock lol)

The White Oak Audio control boards of every revision have an identical nominal gain to that of the PL14. The gain of White Oak Audio control boards is much more precise than the PL14 due to the use of precision components throughout.

 

[MusicSteve]

The White Oak Audio control boards of every revision have an identical nominal gain to that of the PL14. The gain of White Oak Audio control boards is much more precise than the PL14 due to the use of precision components throughout.

Joe
That's what I thought, I did not notices any real gain differents.

I also have been experimenting w different Capacitors (have the 700II in their now, I bought from you)
when the power Rails + - DC go down from 80vdc and around 74vdc or below I can get a Bad Spike in the tweeter.
What's the normal Tolerates for the power rails (voltage drop)?

 

[gene french]

It just means that you need a higher output preamp signal to drive it to full output

understood....and noted...
appreciate the learning opportunity...

 

[gene french]

i can conclude that the newer pl14 boards are probably more effecient than the older 400v boards...
although both can be driven to full rated specifications....
and we can safely assume that the wopl driver boards would be equal to or more efficient, newer, more stable, more precise...higher quality...etc
i cant wait...but, i will have to....

 

[laatsch55]

All good things come to those who wait...

 

[Gepetto]

Joe
That's what I thought, I did not notices any real gain differents.

I also have been experimenting w different Capacitors (have the 700II in their now, I bought from you)
when the power Rails + - DC go down from 80vdc and around 74vdc or below I can get a Bad Spike in the tweeter.
What's the normal Tolerates for the power rails (voltage drop)?

The voltage sag you observe with increased power output is a function of the quality of the load regulation of the transformer, the line cord and the AC mains service coming into the amp and is the main determinant of how the voltage drops with load. The resistance in the transformer windings has the largest effect, followed probably by the other two (I have no idea if you are running the amp on a wimpy extension cord, for example).

The capacitor value is a secondary effect since it is recharged every 8.3 msec by the transformer.

If you are driving the amp that hard to have the voltage droop ~6V (12V down on both rails), then you are also running into clip sooner (that is about 7.5% load regulation of the transformer). Flat-lining due to clipping will show up as noise in the higher frequencies.

Transformer load regulation is a function of the physical size of the transformer and the internal window size, which limits the size of the wire you can coil around the core. PL had to make some practical choices in that area and settled on the size they did for both the 400 and 700. You notice that the frame size on the 700 is much larger than the 400 in order to achieve a similar load regulation specification at 700W that the 400 does at 400W.

The control board is fine to much, much lower voltages (the regulated voltages are +/-15V). Clipping at the rails is your primary limiter.

 

[George S.]

So we try to build them with a 15 or 20 amp IEC socket, 15 or 20 amp line cord. I use 14 AWG wire on the AC runs, but 16 AWG appears adequate. Use mil-spec PTFE/Teflon silver plated wire.
Insulate the transformer bolts, and use a heavy duty contractor grade power strip if your going to use one.
Don't think I experienced voltage sag at punishing sound pressures yet, but I haven't had a meter on the rails. My house does have good wiring, but it hasn't been specifically wired for multiple WOPLs. That's a future project.
The original PL cord is good for lamps, not amps.