Oil on the (downward slide) upward climb...

orange

orange

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Here's the catch-adding refinery capacity at the rate you suggest creates more product and much lower prices....supposedly, according to supply and demand, IF THE SUPPLY REMAINS HIGH.

If NOT, there will be nothing to refine at some of those plants and the price goes to hell.

The producer might temporarily benefit but it may not be worth expansion on their part because the market has to extend into the future for some time, and OPEC/Saudi Arabia gets the message to intervene.

Massive infrastructure improvement becomes counterintuitive over shorter terms. Then you have to step lightly on people's toes (NIMBY).

The oil and gas industry operates on futures contracts, a promise of delivery that should normally keep supplies predictable and steady. Regional producers help to fill in gaps but as you have seen it's a highly volatile situation, boom and bust happen quickly.

If there were a lot more refineries it wouldn't make a difference for the fact that they still have to shut down periodically to adjust production for seasonal products. Gasoline is tailored for summer and winter to ease pollution and the percentage of output shifts between vehicle needs in spring and heating for winter. This isn't really an EPA/government issue as much as standard industry practice.
 
orange

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laatsch55 said:
No, just make it harder to ship oil by rail. And make the treehuggers scream louder to not use fossil fuels period...
Click to expand...
PS You can't hug a tree too hard or the squirrels will think you're nuts.
 
laatsch55

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Web Police said:
Not oil, but Gas is on the upward climb around here. About .50 per gallon because of refinery issues. (Covering Lee's ears) If the US government cared more about the people then the oil companies they would allow and force more refining capacity.

I know if I was a in a terrorist group I' d disable the power grid and bunch of refineries that would throw the economy into a tizzy.
Click to expand...


Big disruption at BP's Michigan refinery. That's why you Midwesterners are paying more...
 
Web Police

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orange said:
Here's the catch-adding refinery capacity at the rate you suggest creates more product and much lower prices....supposedly, according to supply and demand, IF THE SUPPLY REMAINS HIGH.

If NOT, there will be nothing to refine at some of those plants and the price goes to hell.

The producer might temporarily benefit but it may not be worth expansion on their part because the market has to extend into the future for some time, and OPEC/Saudi Arabia gets the message to intervene.

Massive infrastructure improvement becomes counterintuitive over shorter terms. Then you have to step lightly on people's toes (NIMBY).

The oil and gas industry operates on futures contracts, a promise of delivery that should normally keep supplies predictable and steady. Regional producers help to fill in gaps but as you have seen it's a highly volatile situation, boom and bust happen quickly.

If there were a lot more refineries it wouldn't make a difference for the fact that they still have to shut down periodically to adjust production for seasonal products. Gasoline is tailored for summer and winter to ease pollution and the percentage of output shifts between vehicle needs in spring and heating for winter. This isn't really an EPA/government issue as much as standard industry practice.
Click to expand...

Steven you are over analyzing it. I am not saying double the capacity or even close, but the oil refineries could be more like the electric utilities. The electricity producers don't jack up prices because they have some maintenance issues they simply buy power from another company who has a slight excess capacity. There needs to be a slight buffer so maintenance and seasonal switch overs are covered without disrupting the flow and price structure. A little more capacity and a few more pipelines may accomplish this.

Obviously I don't have the vast knowledge of the industry like you do though.:wink:
 
Northwinds

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Web Police said:
The electricity producers don't jack up prices because they have some maintenance issues they simply buy power from another company who has a slight excess
Click to expand...
Bullshit, CL&P jacks our rate every year. I pay $250 average a month (only one air conditioner run a few times a month). The WOPL does not eat that much LMAO!!! Same thing in Winter and I heat with wood!!!!
 
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Northwinds said:
Bullshit, CL&P jacks our rate every year. I pay $250 average a month (only one air conditioner run a few times a month). The WOPL does not eat that much LMAO!!! Same thing in Winter and I heat with wood!!!!
Click to expand...
Could be in your area. My prices haven't went up in a few years. I ran the ac every day. Just got my bill and from 7/8 to 8/8 I used $100 even. My average Electricity bill runs about $50 per month or so. you must live in the wrong area.

What I meant is while Electricity rates may go up each year they don't fluctuate 75 times a year like Gasoline prices. The janitor at the refinery has a hang nail and the prices jump 10 cents a gallon. :toothy5:
 
orange

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Natural gas has been trending downward around here for nearly two years. I only use it for heating anyway.
 
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laatsch55 said:
You electricity must come from Wyoming then Web....
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The materials used to generate the electricity come from Wy, but the power is generated in Minnesota and the surrounding states.

I also have a saver switch connected to my ac compressor outside which gives the power company the ability to shut it down for 15 minutes per hour on real hot days depending upon their needs. The give me a 15% discount on all electricity from June through September. I saved about $14 last month.

Electricity runs about 10.4 cents per KW hour here.

About 40% comes from coal and 10% from Natty Gas.
 
stuwee

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Hey Webster, that's a really cool idea, I wish more communities would use that! My electric bill was $202.00 last month, and that is with a well constructed 1947 home with 1 foot thick adobe walls and new double pane thermal windows!!

Of course, my idiot partner keeps the A/C set to 69F, should I shoot him?? :toothy5: :violent1: :la:
 
BlazeES

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stuwee said:
Hey Webster, that's a really cool idea, I wish more communities would use that! My electric bill was $202.00 last month, and that is with a well constructed 1947 home with 1 foot thick adobe walls and new double pane thermal windows!!

Of course, my idiot partner keeps the A/C set to 69F, should I shoot him?? :toothy5: :violent1: :la:
Click to expand...
69 F is friggin parka zone sh!t

On a more serious note,
LED lights have come WAY down in price.
Wanna save big time on your electric bill -

convert to LED.
 
BlazeES

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$3.13 for regular
$3.35 for premium

at the local watering hole this week.

$3.09 cash for Safeway gas.
 
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orange

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I leave mine on auto at 70 and live with it as if I shut it down and forget about it then it takes a while to get back to normal. The fans will blow warm air here on the other side of the room and in the bedroom. I have 16 bulbs indoors and 1 porch lamp. If they were a real source of heat I would just about die from happiness every October. I visited a friend at their new home and the open kitchen alone has six fixtures, kinda like a Denny's. I have TWO in mine. At seven dollars a bulb I have put them in strategic spots as I switch out the dead bulbs. Halogens make up all but two of the conventional bulbs now, I used the last two I hoarded this summer, when they are gone, that is that for Mr. Edison.

But that is still eleven more bulbs to replace with LED lamps.

PS These two LCD monitors and a GeForce 7800 GTX put out more heat than the incandescents combined, from the backlighting and GPU. :toothy5:

Actually, so does my TX-9100.
 
orange

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Gas just touched $3.009 at one station yesterday, $2.994-2.999 is common.

Labor Day is coming and winter is expected to be a strong and cold one. We'll see. We'll HOPE too.
 
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