My problem

[laatsch55]

Close to 1000 Ron...

 

[WOPL Sniffer]

Quick reply before hitting the sack...Lee and Jani coming soon, gotta get some sleep...

I've searched and read many threads, a WOPL 1000 is a PL 700 series II? 700B? Power moved up from 350wpc to 500wpc?

I like the Clair Bros look Perry!! The fact that they were used by Black Sabbath makes them very special indeed, after I talk with Lee later today, I'd love to chat with you very soon bud!

Anytime Stuwee, don't know if I have any singles left though. Just the string of serial numbers amps.

 

[laatsch55]

Quick reply before hitting the sack...Lee and Jani coming soon, gotta get some sleep...

I've searched and read many threads, a WOPL 1000 is a PL 700 series II? 700B? Power moved up from 350wpc to 500wpc?

I like the Clair Bros look Perry!! The fact that they were used by Black Sabbath makes them very special indeed, after I talk with Lee later today, I'd love to chat with you very soon bud!

A stock 700 will generally yest between 450 and 480, depending again on rail voltage. Those are max out figures, not continous ratings...

 

[laatsch55]

AWESOME Joe!!!!! That's the higher end of low bass frequency right? What is the DF at say 50Hz?

Tis harder to damp a woof than a mid or tweet...

 

[Northwinds]

Tis harder to damp a woof than a mid or tweet...

I know that Lee, DF is only applicable to bass frequencies, just trying to get a handle on the DF average across the bass frequencies and if Joe's design in anyway increases the DF factor. I also asked if there was a way to increase DF factor in a build. I know some Crowns have a DF average of 4000 or more and there is no way I believe any Crown amp is better then a WOPL

How do you measure DF anyway? Is it dependent on the power supply only?

 

[grapplesaw]

A stock 700 will generally yest between 450 and 480, depending again on rail voltage. Those are max out figures, not continous ratings...

My 700's put out the same power of approximately 450 per channel in stock or WOPL set up. The out put is a function of Rail Voltage.

 

[laatsch55]

I know that Lee, DF is only applicable to bass frequencies, just trying to get a handle on the DF average across the bass frequencies and if Joe's design in anyway increases the DF factor. I also asked if there was a way to increase DF factor in a build. I know some Crowns have a DF average of 4000 or more and there is no way I believe any Crown amp is better then a WOPL

How do you measure DF anyway? Is it dependent on the power supply only?

Ron, it's a matter of amp topology more than anything. Emitter-follofollower, etc and how the global negative feedback is applied.

The Spec 2 is a fine amp , but has a damping factor of 50. It showed on the pair of Ohm Model F's I had. The Spec could not drive them well, wish I had a WOPL back then, would have been magical...

 

[marcok]

http://www.crownaudio.com/media/pdf/amps/damping_factor.pdf
Here you'll find a simple explanation of DP .
Ciao
Marco

 

[Northwinds]

Thanks for explaining that Lee, I will cogitate on that for a bit and do a little more online searching for global feedback circuits unless you or Joe can go into it a bit further. I think it's an interesting topic. People on AK don't take DF seriously, they think it's a meaningless spec for the most part (or over rated). Maybe because they don't crank to find out? I dunno...

 

[laatsch55]

I wasn't aware of how important damping factor was until the F's.....and they ate the Spec's lunch. And I didn't realize that the difference in damping facto would make that much difference even on the K's, but it really does. Even the Bryston, SAE, and all the rest that have been through here, don't hold a candle to a WOPL.

 

[laatsch55]

On my 4th crown and coke..... so things are getting slurry....

 

[Northwinds]

Your excused Brother, enjoy life!!!!

 

[laatsch55]

Oh , I am. Collecting on our bet right now, he's buying lunch....

 

[Gepetto]

I wasn't aware of how important damping factor was until the F's.....and they ate the Spec's lunch. And I didn't realize that the difference in damping facto would make that much difference even on the K's, but it really does. Even the Bryston, SAE, and all the rest that have been through here, don't hold a candle to a WOPL.

What Lee said...

RevE Control Board Damping Factor (DF)
Statistics extracted from SPICE model

8 ohm data

Frequency DF
DC 800,000
10 Hz 40,000
100 Hz 4,000
1 KHz 333
10 KHz 50
20 KHz 45

4 ohm data

Frequency DF
DC 595,200
10 Hz 22,800
100 Hz 2500
1 KHz 210
10 KHz 40
20 KHz 33

Hope this answers the questions being raised. Any amplifier DF much above 1000 is practically 1000 because of the resistance of the speaker wire that you use to connect your speakers becomes the dominant factor, not the amplifier. All it takes is 8 milliohms of wire to kill a nearly infinite DF of the amp and bring it down to earth.

 

[laatsch55]

I was backwards thinking the DF was lower as the frequency lowered.

 

[Gepetto]

I was backwards thinking the DF was lower as the frequency lowered.

DF is a function of the amplifier open loop gain Lee. The gain of the PL14_20 is almost infinite at DC and rolls off steadily with increasing frequency.

 

[laatsch55]

Gotcha....

 

[stuwee]

I guess after our fantastic meet today, I'll be a new member of the WOPL club be it a nice stereo unit or monos is a tale not yet told, we reached so pretty nice SPLs with the big SAE before it said "No more please", Lee and Jani think there is much more power to get the best outta the ML's even in my small room. He mentioned in my other thread that the soundstage is blow your mind wide and deep with the SAE. There was talk about some K-horn bass units driven by the big SAE and WOPLs handling the panels...

My outta control system is in the thinking phase...

Lee, we forgot to talk about preamps, I still want that GAS unit, or should we get something else?

 

[Northwinds]

Joe, so bigger speaker wires preserve DF?

 

[Gepetto]

Joe, so bigger speaker wires preserve DF?

Ron
If your speaker wire run has a half an ohm of total resistance, it will bring an amp with the world's best damping factor down to a DF of 16 while driving an 8 ohm speaker.