Added to the fleet
- Thread starter 8991XJ
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- Jan 14, 2011
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- Gillette, Wyo.
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- Halfbiass...Electron Herder and Backass Woof
Wait, adding what to who's collection? Gray Tonearm?
http://www.karmadon.net/shop/klon-tonarma-gray-206/
http://www.karmadon.net/shop/klon-tonarma-gray-206/
Dang, I post about the resonance frequency prompting NeverSatisfied to say what a great site this is and Lee likes that post about the good site as he ignores the post with the info that earned that comment.
Then I get these two together to get that Black widow moved from Lee's extras pile of gear, and turntables are the worst as they are stack stoppers, you can't put anything on top of them. The part that hurts there is that Lee gave him such a sweet deal there is no commission for me getting the sale going by mentioning his TT/arm combo, kinda knowing it was looking for a new owner because well Lee doesn't play a lot of records according to that old thread.
Oh well, at least folks are enjoying the content. That is why I chose this site to expose my new addition.
Then I get these two together to get that Black widow moved from Lee's extras pile of gear, and turntables are the worst as they are stack stoppers, you can't put anything on top of them. The part that hurts there is that Lee gave him such a sweet deal there is no commission for me getting the sale going by mentioning his TT/arm combo, kinda knowing it was looking for a new owner because well Lee doesn't play a lot of records according to that old thread.
Oh well, at least folks are enjoying the content. That is why I chose this site to expose my new addition.
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2011
- Messages
- 74,248
- Location
- Gillette, Wyo.
- Tagline
- Halfbiass...Electron Herder and Backass Woof
Glad you are able to add to your collection.
My table wasn't priced at full retail for the pieces so I thought it would be good to see what all the talk was about the BW even though a friend has one on his KD-500. First one of those I had was fitted with a Mayware arm that I enjoyed. Then while selling we had Magnepan and they became my arm of choice. So much good about those arms, glad to have a handful of them. But this BW has all the bells and whistles and the 126 will look great no matter which of those arms I use. The 3009 looks correct on the 125, ubiquitous high end table of the 70s.
Looking forward to your thread about bringing back the table to properly support the arm.
My table wasn't priced at full retail for the pieces so I thought it would be good to see what all the talk was about the BW even though a friend has one on his KD-500. First one of those I had was fitted with a Mayware arm that I enjoyed. Then while selling we had Magnepan and they became my arm of choice. So much good about those arms, glad to have a handful of them. But this BW has all the bells and whistles and the 126 will look great no matter which of those arms I use. The 3009 looks correct on the 125, ubiquitous high end table of the 70s.
Looking forward to your thread about bringing back the table to properly support the arm.
Too many people think the resonance frequency needs to be exactly one frequency be it 7, 8 or 9 Hz. Here is something to keep in mind when evaluating whether a cartridge compliance/tonearm mass will work well.
The resonant frequency is the frequency that the cartridge/stylus gets excited based on the mass of the system holding it and the compliance of the stylus assembly. The calculator on VE gives you the whole number but the fractions are missing. That doesn't matter. The whole number should be enough because what you are trying to do getting the right number is avoid the record warp frequencies 0-4Hz and the low bass on a record frequencies 16Hz and up.
Let's talk record warp, for different bumps per revolution you are looking at the very low frequencies, 0-3Hz, I'd say. You do not want a cartridge resonance in that area as the excitement from the low frequencies added by the record warp will make a 'Galloping Gertie' out of the arm/cartridge and the nail will jump out of the groove. Galloping Gertie is the Tacoma Narrows bridge that wind blew at the right speed to excite the resonance frequency of the bridge causing its collapse just a few months after construction was completed. Resonance at the wrong frequency can be bad.
So we are avoiding anything down low. Now the other end.
Records have sound recordings on them with a frequency response of generally 30-20kHz or much higher for Quad records of 50kHz max. Some records will have lower frequencies for deep pipe organ or special records and such. So we want to avoid a cartridge/arm resonance frequency of anything close to 20Hz on the top end.
This leaves us with a useable range...with the center of that range in the 7.5-9.5 area. That is ideal but it does not mean you will suffer if your resonant frequency is 5 or 12-13. Folks get too concerned with making that hand grenade land exactly on the target when anything within a few yards will do a fine job of the removal of the problem.
So if your work to determine resonance gives you a result of 13, roll with it, no reason to add weight that may cause other problems when the 13Hz will not. If you experience a problem then consider a heavier mounting system, big thumbscrews maybe. With many arms the choice of headshell can make differences that will help but some fixed mountings are not so versatile.
Best cartridge/arm combo I have heard here is an Ortofon MC30 Super on a Fidelity Research FR-64s, somewhere in the mid-6Hz range. Wonderful, kept me reaching for more vinyl to play early into the morning.
The resonant frequency is the frequency that the cartridge/stylus gets excited based on the mass of the system holding it and the compliance of the stylus assembly. The calculator on VE gives you the whole number but the fractions are missing. That doesn't matter. The whole number should be enough because what you are trying to do getting the right number is avoid the record warp frequencies 0-4Hz and the low bass on a record frequencies 16Hz and up.
Let's talk record warp, for different bumps per revolution you are looking at the very low frequencies, 0-3Hz, I'd say. You do not want a cartridge resonance in that area as the excitement from the low frequencies added by the record warp will make a 'Galloping Gertie' out of the arm/cartridge and the nail will jump out of the groove. Galloping Gertie is the Tacoma Narrows bridge that wind blew at the right speed to excite the resonance frequency of the bridge causing its collapse just a few months after construction was completed. Resonance at the wrong frequency can be bad.
So we are avoiding anything down low. Now the other end.
Records have sound recordings on them with a frequency response of generally 30-20kHz or much higher for Quad records of 50kHz max. Some records will have lower frequencies for deep pipe organ or special records and such. So we want to avoid a cartridge/arm resonance frequency of anything close to 20Hz on the top end.
This leaves us with a useable range...with the center of that range in the 7.5-9.5 area. That is ideal but it does not mean you will suffer if your resonant frequency is 5 or 12-13. Folks get too concerned with making that hand grenade land exactly on the target when anything within a few yards will do a fine job of the removal of the problem.
So if your work to determine resonance gives you a result of 13, roll with it, no reason to add weight that may cause other problems when the 13Hz will not. If you experience a problem then consider a heavier mounting system, big thumbscrews maybe. With many arms the choice of headshell can make differences that will help but some fixed mountings are not so versatile.
Best cartridge/arm combo I have heard here is an Ortofon MC30 Super on a Fidelity Research FR-64s, somewhere in the mid-6Hz range. Wonderful, kept me reaching for more vinyl to play early into the morning.
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I have 4 tables in the main rig, all at different heights and all stopping the stack. I also have a couple in the stacks of gear, stopping me from adding to those piles. Then there are the open amps with parts boxes that stop stacks from getting higher, too. I really need to get busy working on some of this gear.
Yup, so much wonderful gear, so little space. I would love to build a barndominium with a couple thousand square feet just for audio gear. Actually more than a wish, I am trying to secure the land now.
I have a Sony PS X650 on my bench right now that I was hoping would be in good shape but it has an issue with the arm lifting coil (this has a fully motorized arm). I had bought it to take the place of my Sony PS X7 that is a nice rig but esthetically not the prettiest TT design. My PL L1000 and PL8000 are my forever rigs and now the Denon/BW will no doubt be at the top of the forever stack.
I have a Sony PS X650 on my bench right now that I was hoping would be in good shape but it has an issue with the arm lifting coil (this has a fully motorized arm). I had bought it to take the place of my Sony PS X7 that is a nice rig but esthetically not the prettiest TT design. My PL L1000 and PL8000 are my forever rigs and now the Denon/BW will no doubt be at the top of the forever stack.
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- Gillette, Wyo.
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- Halfbiass...Electron Herder and Backass Woof
That is true.
I got one that had never had the plastic removed from the dust cover. Had a hitch in its giddy-up. Recapped almost fixed it but needed more...adjusting the VRs for speed and all is well after a serious cleaning to get the glue-grease out of the mechanism. But my brother asked for a tt for Christmas so that one although here is his table. Sounds excellent when not stopping a stack with the Denon DL-160.
I did finally get a full auto (needing one or a semi-auto) when I got a Technics SL-1600 II.
The looks of the PS-X7, dark SBMC base with black CF tonearm, silver trimmings and such and capacitive touch switches that are a bit temperamental for some aren't the prettiest but it is a very fine performer for an automatic and I love the semi-auto use. Here's why
1) when the arm returns it keeps the cuing UP
2) in manual you can either move the arm over and hit start or the other way around
3) plenty of time to grind the dust into the record with a cleaner before the nail sets down
4) plays the record and returns.
Love it that the arm stays up when not in the playing position.
I got one that had never had the plastic removed from the dust cover. Had a hitch in its giddy-up. Recapped almost fixed it but needed more...adjusting the VRs for speed and all is well after a serious cleaning to get the glue-grease out of the mechanism. But my brother asked for a tt for Christmas so that one although here is his table. Sounds excellent when not stopping a stack with the Denon DL-160.
I did finally get a full auto (needing one or a semi-auto) when I got a Technics SL-1600 II.
The looks of the PS-X7, dark SBMC base with black CF tonearm, silver trimmings and such and capacitive touch switches that are a bit temperamental for some aren't the prettiest but it is a very fine performer for an automatic and I love the semi-auto use. Here's why
1) when the arm returns it keeps the cuing UP
2) in manual you can either move the arm over and hit start or the other way around
3) plenty of time to grind the dust into the record with a cleaner before the nail sets down
4) plays the record and returns.
Love it that the arm stays up when not in the playing position.
I had a bit of an ordeal with my X7, bought from a seller who let his daughter pack it, arrived with the dust cover destroyed and the platter chewing up the plinth but electronically and mechanically fine. So I had to find one for parts that was cosmetically good and put the two together. It did come with a nice PICKERING XSV/3000.
I really want to get the Sony x650 going, but I am not hopeful.
I really want to get the Sony x650 going, but I am not hopeful.