David's Phase Linear 700B Thread

Phase Linear Phanatic said:
Wait................. now that I think about what you are saying a little more; Hmmmmm......................... so do you think that the PL700B I acquired for my high end with the three pronged outlet on it, is introducing that hum to my two pronged white oak 700B? I have a cheater plug I could use on it? You think it could be that simple? Could I get that lucky?? :confused3:
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Dave, you're quick. Joe must have a hard time waiting on us for things to click. He once avoided my frantic calls for help one time until I "got it" on my own. He's a good man, a helluva an engineer and a great teacher. A combination as rare as it sounds...
 
laatsch55 said:
Dave, you're quick. Joe must have a hard time waiting on us for things to click. He once avoided my frantic calls for help one time until I "got it" on my own. He's a good man, a helluva an engineer and a great teacher. A combination as rare as it sounds...
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Lee...I wish I WAS that quick. :-( It's a sad sad thing when I "get" what he means; but it takes days. I mean, I totally understand your panel grounding scheme explanation. I better. I wire that exact thing every dang day at work. Makes you wonder how I even have a job? Bare panels come to me with components all over it. And two chassis ground bars are there. First thing I do is wire from each device over to the bars. And on DC power supplies; the ground and neutral are run together. I should understand this. But I swear......... I just have days man. :banghead: I will admit to this forum, I am NO engineer and barely a qualified technician. "yet". I do not have a Bachelors or masters degree in anything. Just a little Associates that's ten years old. And I have only been doing this for three months. I AM a newbie by all respects. I only WISHED I understood this stuff the way Joe does. Or you or Jerry. What I wouldn't give to know.

It is wrong for me to say that nothing had changed since my conversion. Cause thats when the light clicked on! Remember the PL 400 I had for my high end that I sold? The one that I was plastering on the buy/sell/trade? Well guess what? THAT was two prong! So is my WO 700B! And what did I do? Sold it and replaced it with a THREE prong 700B for my high end. "and we have a winner"!! Both B's connected to the same two-outlet time delay bank. Ugh! I should have seen that.

I think I need to go get some sleep before I loose any MORE brain cells.......................... :angry3:
 
laatsch55 said:
Yeah, once you hear a White Oaked PL 700 you're F*&^%$ for sure. Nothing else will do. Love the headroom, love the sound, love the way my eyeballs vibrate at ----a quote from Dr. Lucitt-----"sublimely insane power levels"...
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Oh yeah! My God? I CAN'T go back! NEVER! The headroom is crazy! I crank it to insane ear levels, and STILL the needles can go further! My poor ears just can't handle what this thing can do! I mean.......the 12" woofers can; but the in-line fuses would give before that! The whole house shakes now and all the windows rattle, and the floor joists buckle! And IF my eyeballs weren't vibrating.........I'd be able to see the needles moving. IF they really are? I have yet to see the red line...................:toothy10:
 
Phase Linear Phanatic said:
Oh yeah! My God? I CAN'T go back! NEVER! The headroom is crazy! I crank it to insane ear levels, and STILL the needles can go further! My poor ears just can't handle what this thing can do! I mean.......the 12" woofers can; but the in-line fuses would give before that! The whole house shakes now and all the windows rattle, and the floor joists buckle! And IF my eyeballs weren't vibrating.........I'd be able to see the needles moving. IF they really are? I have yet to see the red line...................:toothy10:
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I can redline my K-Horns for a short pertod of time and can 0db them for hours.The ALK K crossovers I put in them had 1-1/2 amp fuses in them to protect the woofs. That got changed to a 2 amp, then a 3 amp, then a 4 amp, and they presently have a 5 amp.
A speaker can take a helluva transient if it's clean and the voicecoil is cool. Now, about that liquid nitrogen pump.....
 
And BTW, I don't understand this stuff either, but I'm a helluva parts changer....
 
From that same article Doug----------------------


Common Problem #2: Check the polarity of the outlet - it may be wired backwards. You can get a polarity checker at Home Depot for about $5. This is one of the first things you may want to check if unplugging the cable box does not remove the hum (and in some cases, the reverse polarity may still be the culprit.)

 
laatsch55 said:
Go with Joe's suggestion, have not seen him wrong yet, I am waiting for the day though. There will be a PAC Forum memorial for him that day.
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Ok Lee. One more time for the mentally impaired here..........Considering I can't just go to my local Radiosmack, and pick up a power isolation transformer.....The easiest solution is the cheater plug. Joes recommendation. Contradictory to Dougs article. Soooooooo is that a "yes" I should try that? I want to be clear?
 
Phase Linear Phanatic said:
Ok Lee. One more time for the mentally impaired here..........Considering I can't just go to my local Radiosmack, and pick up a power isolation transformer.....The easiest solution is the cheater plug. Joes recommendation. Contradictory to Dougs article. Soooooooo is that a "yes" I should try that? I want to be clear?
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Allow me... YES. Lee and Joe have you ever seen a 400 or 700 with a 3 prong?? I suggested that I might do that to one of the amps I have done in the past, and both of ya's strongly advised against it. I think I see the reason why...

I also recall having the same sorts of issues with my Crown, which incidentally also had one...
 
laatsch55 said:
I can redline my K-Horns for a short pertod of time and can 0db them for hours.The ALK K crossovers I put in them had 1-1/2 amp fuses in them to protect the woofs. That got changed to a 2 amp, then a 3 amp, then a 4 amp, and they presently have a 5 amp.
A speaker can take a helluva transient if it's clean and the voicecoil is cool. Now, about that liquid nitrogen pump.....
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I think I have a polarity checker here. Egads! I actually HAVE something useful at my disposal? Theres a first! :laughing9: The easiest of all would be to unplug the three prong amp on my high end and turn the system on with just the WOA two prong amp on. See if the hum is there? I'll try that in the morning. If it is still there, i will try the polarity checker. If ok and its still there, i will unhook all three pronged devices, leaving no ground prongs in the monster filter. If hum is still present then hell. I am out of ideas. Since Jerry said no hum was present when he sent it back, then it cant be in the amp? Has to be something i am missing......... Lets see what happens tomorrow.

hmmmmmm liquid nitrogen? At the volume levels I have this WOA PL700B running at, the PL factory made fan cant keep it cool enough. We should develop fins with two inch holes in them, and run the nitrogen through a tube through the holes. The original heat dissipation fins were never designed to accommodate the listening levels of the WOA gear. Lol! Yeah, liquid nitrogen would be "cool".
 
Yep, my cheater consist of a 3 prong relieved of the 3rd with a pair-o-dykes...
 
Phase Linear Phanatic said:
I think I have a polarity checker here. Egads! I actually HAVE something useful at my disposal? Theres a first! :laughing9: The easiest of all would be to unplug the three prong amp on my high end and turn the system on with just the WOA two prong amp on. See if the hum is there? I'll try that in the morning. If it is still there, i will try the polarity checker. If ok and its still there, i will unhook all three pronged devices, leaving no ground prongs in the monster filter. If hum is still present then hell. I am out of ideas. Since Jerry said no hum was present when he sent it back, then it cant be in the amp? Has to be something i am missing......... Lets see what happens tomorrow.

hmmmmmm liquid nitrogen? At the volume levels I have this WOA PL700B running at, the PL factory made fan cant keep it cool enough. We should develop fins with two inch holes in them, and run the nitrogen through a tube through the holes. The original heat dissipation fins were never designed to accommodate the listening levels of the WOA gear. Lol! Yeah, liquid nitrogen would be "cool".
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That's exactly the reason for the "Twin-Snap On Fans". My reference to liquid N2 was for the voice coils in the woof and midrange drivers....
 
jbeckva said:
Allow me... YES. Lee and Joe have you ever seen a 400 or 700 with a 3 prong?? I suggested that I might do that to one of the amps I have done in the past, and both of ya's strongly advised against it. I think I see the reason why...

I also recall having the same sorts of issues with my Crown, which incidentally also had one...
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Also, to follow you on that Jerry...... Joe or Lee; did phase ever make their amps with three prongs? EVER? (History lesson here). I have seen this a few times on some 700's and 400's. I want to know whether this was a factory change or an typical phase inconsistency thing as usual; OR some schmo just decided to replace it with one after his dog chewed through the cord. Any of todays gear that is high current that I own, (Arcam surround sound processor, Oppo BDP 105, transparent audio power isolation surge filter etc.) all have three prongs. Phase is the only high current audio eqpt I have owned that had standard two prongs. I think somewhere in an old thread I read that phase's reason for this is that back in the 60's and 70's, a lot of homes did not have three prongs. Something about that becoming code was later? So for a universal fit, they started out as standard two prong. This could be totally wrong. Just thinking out loud.
 
Gepetto said:
you cannot have more than one grounded 3 prong plug in your system unless you want ground loops and the associated hum.

See; the this is what I don't get. If that's the case; why do they develop a power center like this with six banks of two outlet three prong plugs? Isn't that just asking for ground loop troubles? A bank of two may be isolated from another bank of two, but internally yes; they all are connected to the same ground point. So I can see why any one component can introduce a ground loop into a system where you have multiple three pronged components. That's frustrating and I bet way over the heads of the basic consumer. I guess they do this to make the item more convenient to the user who has multiple pieces of gear that has more than two prongs? I doubt most care about hum.
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That's the problem with jumping ahead with certain parts of an education, we miss some prequisites.....
 
Phase Linear Phanatic said:
Also, to follow you on that Jerry...... Joe or Lee; did phase ever make their amps with three prongs? EVER? (History lesson here). I have seen this a few times on some 700's and 400's. I want to know whether this was a factory change or an typical phase inconsistency thing as usual; OR some schmo just decided to replace it with one after his dog chewed through the cord. Any of todays gear that is high current that I own, (Arcam surround sound processor, Oppo BDP 105, transparent audio power isolation surge filter etc.) all have three prongs. Phase is the only high current audio eqpt I have owned that had standard two prongs. I think somewhere in an old thread I read that phase's reason for this is that back in the 60's and 70's, a lot of homes did not have three prongs. Something about that becoming code was later? So for a universal fit, they started out as standard two prong. This could be totally wrong. Just thinking out loud.
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All my Spec gear is 2 pronged. I have not seen a factory 3 prong in a Phase Linear amp. I will check with the PL amp god/historian tomorrow thopugh...
 
laatsch55 said:
All my Spec gear is 2 pronged. I have not seen a factory 3 prong in a Phase Linear amp. I will check with the PL amp god/historian tomorrow thopugh...
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Here is a picture of an international 220V PL400. Note the round line cord instead of the flat 2 conductor cord we are all used to seeing.

The green safety conductor terminates at the middle leg of the leftmost 3 terminal barrier strip which ties it there to chassis ground.

International (EU) safety standards led US safety standards, now they are onto line purity and harmonic distortion of the current waveform :-)

PL400 002.jpg

Resistor (Resistance) 002.jpg
 
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