XLR phase inversion. Purpose?
- Thread starter Chris Cables
- Start date
Even most of the "good" stuff are all single-ended inside, with converters on the front and back ends that "create" a balanced signal...
Back to the 47k, it is an excellent (simple) design phono pre that served me a LONG time before being replaced with the Wyn Palmer design. They are not easy to find second-hand because people don't let them go!
Back to the 47k, it is an excellent (simple) design phono pre that served me a LONG time before being replaced with the Wyn Palmer design. They are not easy to find second-hand because people don't let them go!
Yes, this conversion from balanced input to single-ended gain stage and back to balanced output using phase splitter circuits within different preamps can cause significant audible degradation. All this so marketing can advertise “Balanced” capability.
This is why many non-fully balanced preamps sound better using single-ended inputs and outputs.
This is why many non-fully balanced preamps sound better using single-ended inputs and outputs.
This was/is a problem with Wyn's phono preamp design.
If ever there was an argument for a balanced line, it's from a cartridge to phono pre. I REALLY wanted to run balanced in from the table, and even made up special balanced cables using those mini XLR jacks found on headphones (perfect for the application) ... But the noise and distortion within the preamp was significantly higher with this option in the phono pre. It did support balanced out, but at that point, all the noise that would be picked up and amplified has already happened...
I've been pushing him to do a truly balanced line amp but he's not excited about the project and has similar issues with the design... I was going to get a pair of JC-2 preamps and use - one for each channel - to slap something together. But I think my efforts will fall very short of what Wyn can accomplish.
If ever there was an argument for a balanced line, it's from a cartridge to phono pre. I REALLY wanted to run balanced in from the table, and even made up special balanced cables using those mini XLR jacks found on headphones (perfect for the application) ... But the noise and distortion within the preamp was significantly higher with this option in the phono pre. It did support balanced out, but at that point, all the noise that would be picked up and amplified has already happened...
I've been pushing him to do a truly balanced line amp but he's not excited about the project and has similar issues with the design... I was going to get a pair of JC-2 preamps and use - one for each channel - to slap something together. But I think my efforts will fall very short of what Wyn can accomplish.
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- 74,888
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- Halfbiass...Electron Herder and Backass Woof
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2011
- Messages
- 74,888
- Location
- Gillette, Wyo.
- Tagline
- Halfbiass...Electron Herder and Backass Woof
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2011
- Messages
- 74,888
- Location
- Gillette, Wyo.
- Tagline
- Halfbiass...Electron Herder and Backass Woof
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2011
- Messages
- 74,888
- Location
- Gillette, Wyo.
- Tagline
- Halfbiass...Electron Herder and Backass Woof
Not zero Jim.
Differential transmission adds components which always degrade, not improve on sound quality. If you have long runs of cables, especially in noisy electrical environments, differential can help because it has better common mode rejection capability. But in most short run, quiet audio system environments, single ended has fewer components in the signal path introducing noise and distortion.
However, high end stuff needs to have a balanced input for some reason or another. So you are required to add it regardless of outcome or if it is ever utilized.
Differential transmission adds components which always degrade, not improve on sound quality. If you have long runs of cables, especially in noisy electrical environments, differential can help because it has better common mode rejection capability. But in most short run, quiet audio system environments, single ended has fewer components in the signal path introducing noise and distortion.
However, high end stuff needs to have a balanced input for some reason or another. So you are required to add it regardless of outcome or if it is ever utilized.
I prefer less and the performance Wyn gets from his phono pre is pretty well known and documented at this point.
But that microvolt input from cartridge to preamp is the perfect place to utilize a balanced line. Any noise picked up gets amplified hugely.
Micro (on their X suffix arms and head shells) use coaxial cable for the cartridge to reject noise. I have it, it’s quiet, but strikes me as odd to use half the signal as a shield with a coil at the end. I guess it works but looking at the entire circuit it just seems odd.
But that microvolt input from cartridge to preamp is the perfect place to utilize a balanced line. Any noise picked up gets amplified hugely.
Micro (on their X suffix arms and head shells) use coaxial cable for the cartridge to reject noise. I have it, it’s quiet, but strikes me as odd to use half the signal as a shield with a coil at the end. I guess it works but looking at the entire circuit it just seems odd.
