Looking for a Dual 1229Q

[MarkWComer]

Getting the urge to put my Rek-O-Kut out with the garbage and replace it with a Dual 1229Q

Of course I want one that's NOS and never been assembled or out of the carton, but I know that's an unrealistic expectation and an unaffordable quest.

Keep me in mind if'n you's happen to see one layin' around somewhere that looks real nice 'n' shiny...

 

[R1200S]

If you don't find what you're looking for, contact Bill at FIXMYDUAL.COM

http://www.fixmydual.com/

Besides basic Dual resurrections, Bill's a great guy to talk to! He even likes calls in the evenings.

 

[Gepetto]

Getting the urge to put my Rek-O-Kut out with the garbage and replace it with a Dual 1229Q

Of course I want one that's NOS and never been assembled or out of the carton, but I know that's an unrealistic expectation and an unaffordable quest.

Keep me in mind if'n you's happen to see one layin' around somewhere that looks real nice 'n' shiny...

Hi Mark
Maybe you should trade in your replica Rek-O-Kut for the real deal, like a vintage K-33 or N-33. A few years back you could have these for a song, today they are starting to fetch serious money.

 

[Elite-ist]

Why the Dual 1229Q, Mark? I have one with a Shure V-15 III cartridge. I haven't had it serviced, yet, but I've grown to like it the more I use it.

Nando.

 

[MarkWComer]

Why the Dual 1229Q, Mark? I have one with a Shure V-15 III cartridge. I haven't had it serviced, yet, but I've grown to like it the more I use it.

Nando.

Nando- look at what you wrote! "haven't had it serviced...", "like it the more I use it..."
That's why I want it!

I didn't have a turntable with my first serious stereo, so a friend loaned me her 1229Q (also with a V-15 III). I loved it- and I regret never having bought one of my own.

Why specifically the "Q" and not the 1219 or the 1229 non-Q:
I like the headshell design and the tonearm gimbal. Minor details, but if I'm getting something else it may as well be what I actually want. The "Q" was made with quadraphonic records in mind and used low capacitance tonearm wiring.

Why the Dual (United Audio) at all:
I like the build. The thing is a quality turntable (actually, it's a record changer...). There are plenty of replacement parts floating around- so I can keep this baby in operation for a long time.

Arguments against the Dual:
Puck drive. The "pro" of the puck drive is that it has great torque, the "con" is that it's noisy. The solution is that the platter weighs 7 lbs and the mass absorbs the noise as well as keeps the speed stable.
Nonstandard headshell: Eh... so what? There are plenty of "head sleds" out there, so I can still interchange.

It's automatic- I can start it up and walk away. At the end of the record it won't play the lead out for 5 hours.

It plays 78RPM- and I have a collection of shellac and have the needles to play them. I was outbid on a 1019, it was a four speed, but in retrospect it was a good thing I didn't get it- it wasn't the 1229Q that I was looking for. For the 16RPM records I do have, I'll hook up the Glaser-Steers!

 

[MarkWComer]

Hi Mark
Maybe you should trade in your replica Rek-O-Kut for the real deal, like a vintage K-33 or N-33. A few years back you could have these for a song, today they are starting to fetch serious money.

And that was a consideration. Calling this a "replica" R-O-K is incredibly generous- this is a Hanpin (http://www.hanpin.com.tw/4_Products_02.html) with a pie-tin platter and shitty tonearm. Most of my complaint is about the tonearm. I regret not doing more research before I bought it. I guess it's fine for what it is, but after using it for two years I've come to not like what it is any more.

Going for vintage would have been more vine-hacking with a machete than I want to go through: refurb the table, build a plinth, get a respectable arm, etc. is just more than I want to go through. To be truthful I would have gone for the Garrard 301 or 401 instead of the R-O-K, even though either would have been an excellent choice.

I'm choosing the path of mediocrity on purpose, out of laziness, but still not making a mediocre choice.

 

[Fishoz]

All good points Mark.

I'll stick with Duals until I can justify spending the big bucks on a Linn or Thorens. The mechanics on Duals are awesome. I do not feel they are "noisy", at least my ears can't detect. Love the convenience of a semi automatic.

 

[MarkWComer]

All good points Mark.

I'll stick with Duals until I can justify spending the big bucks on a Linn or Thorens. The mechanics on Duals are awesome. I do not feel they are "noisy", at least my ears can't detect. Love the convenience of a semi automatic.

Believe me- a lot of thought went into this decision!

 

[R1200S]

Mark, I'm not trying to sway your opinion here, just supplying info that might be informative. A while back I picked up 2 non-functioning Duals, a 1219 and a 1249. Both mechanisms frozen up but completely repairable.
I talked to Bill over at FIXMYDUAL and he suggested the 1219 would likely be the keeper of the 2. Most likely due to its more classic status.

On another note, my first experience with any sort of decent turntable was a 1019 with a V15 that my brother shipped home (new) from Vietnam in the 60's. If I remember correctly, the 1019 has the heaviest platter of any of the Duals. Something like 7 pounds. Another thing that many people forget is that a lot of Dual tables will actually function as changers, with the simple swap of the single play spindle for the changer spindle. I remember it worked very well and while a changer might not be your thing, it's nice to know the functionality is there.

 

[Northwinds]

Man, I can't think of a Dual I like. They all look cheesy and cheap

I have a Gerrard LAB 80 sitting in the garage that I think is better then most Dual's yet I won't use it either

 

[MarkWComer]

Mark, I'm not trying to sway your opinion here, just supplying info that might be informative. A while back I picked up 2 non-functioning Duals, a 1219 and a 1249. Both mechanisms frozen up but completely repairable.
I talked to Bill over at FIXMYDUAL and he suggested the 1219 would likely be the keeper of the 2. Most likely due to its more classic status.

On another note, my first experience with any sort of decent turntable was a 1019 with a V15 that my brother shipped home (new) from Vietnam in the 60's. If I remember correctly, the 1019 has the heaviest platter of any of the Duals. Something like 7 pounds. Another thing that many people forget is that a lot of Dual tables will actually function as changers, with the simple swap of the single play spindle for the changer spindle. I remember it worked very well and while a changer might not be your thing, it's nice to know the functionality is there.

The 1219 and 1229 aren't too far in difference. The 1219 doesn't have the stroboscope window.

Again- I was outbid on a 1019, would have been satisfied with it for a while, but would have eventually gone for the 1229. The 1229 also has a 7 pound platter. I probably won't use the stacking feature, but can't deny that it's a cool feature.

I sent an email to FIXMYDUAL to see if he has anything for sale...

Man, I can't think of a Dual I like. They all look cheesy and cheap

I have a Gerrard LAB 80 sitting in the garage that I think is better then most Dual's yet I won't use it either

I didn't get that impression of the Dual at all! That Lab 80 looks cool, though, even if a bit dated.

I still want that Dual...

 

[R1200S]

Mark, take a look at this. Not that you should buy a 1019 but it's a very cool modification!!

http://doctordual.ca/chrome-dual/

 

[Northwinds]

That's just my opinion Mark (or prejudice). I was never a fan of idler TT's, I hate the look of the funky Dual and Gerrard TT's, I hate the cheap feel of the counterweight and the tonearms look dated period

 

[MarkWComer]

Mark, take a look at this. Not that you should buy a 1019 but it's a very cool modification!!

http://doctordual.ca/chrome-dual/

HA HA HA! Hysterical! I love it! (Homer Simpson: "Oooh... Shiny!")

 

[Northwinds]

That chrome Dual is actually cool looking but I still would not want one

I sold a 1219 about a year ago to AK member elny for $75, he was happy. I was to considering I paid $10 for it with a barely used Shure V15 type II on it

 

[MarkWComer]

That's just my opinion Mark (or prejudice). I was never a fan of idler TT's, I hate the look of the funky Dual and Gerrard TT's, I hate the cheap feel of the counterweight and the tonearms look dated period

Everyone likes what they like for whatever reason. I'm actually not a great fan of idler drives either, but if the platter is massive enough, idler is the way to go (look at the old R-O-K, Garrard, EMT broadcast tables...). Increased mass brings a greater gyroscopic effect, and along with that, increased speed stability.

The 1229 (Q) is just stuck in my mind as the flagship of the Dual line. The belt- and direct- drive units that came afterward give me that same "cheap 'n' cheezy" impression, so this for me is also the "cutoff" model- nothing afterward is worth my money.

One thing I don't like is "gimmicky" stuff. I was curious about the Garrard Zero 100 when it came out- there was an outrigger arm that supposedly kept the cartridge head in tangent with the groove. The problem is that it was still swinging on an arc- the geometry just didn't seem to work.

 

[Northwinds]

That LAB 80 has a ridiculously heavy platter. The wooden tonearm looks "cool" but it also looks stupid because it's so blocky. I have the tree stacker for it also. I will admit the controls on the arm are pretty cool though

Just out of curiosity, what is the difference with "idler way to go"? I would put a quartz locking DD over any belt or idler system. Years ago, I had a TD-124 and I absolutely hated it, I thought it was the ugliest POS in the world. Reminded me of the TT's that came in the higher end 50s Magnavox consoles. I bought it for the "cool" factor but find that really good DD TT's equal it easily and could be had for far cheaper and use the money for other better gear. I am all for vintage but ugly TT's just don't cut it for me. Even those ones that dude's mount two tonearms to me look silly

Your right, we all pick our gear based on our preferences. I guess I just need to shut up because I am willing to bet if I was blind folded, I would not be able to tell the difference in sound if using the same carts with a Dual idler or a Technics DD LMAO!!!!!

So... in retrospect... it appears that my Dual prejudice could very well be founded purely on how it looks, not necessarily how it performs

 

[R1200S]

HA HA HA! Hysterical! I love it! (Homer Simpson: "Oooh... Shiny!")

Had a feeling you'd like that

 

[MarkWComer]

Just out of curiosity, what is the difference with "idler way to go"? I would put a quartz locking DD over any belt or idler system.

The wisdom I've been exposed to states that:
(1) the puck drive presents the greatest torque from motor shaft to platter due to the friction of the puck being wedged against the motor shaft and drive rim. Noise can come from the motor, defects in the drive shaft of the motor, irregularities in the puck, and irregularities in the drive rim. Platter mass provides rotational stability as well as a filter for noise- the large mass just doesn't react to higher frequency irregularities. Most problems with puck drives are from the puck resting against the motor shaft for a long time and getting a dimple pressed into the edge. This happens a lot with old console record changers.

(2) direct drive can "cog" due to the alternation of the repulsion / attraction phases of the magnetic fields of the motor. In short, "grabbing and pushing" of the magnetic fields present uneven rotation. To overcome this we need more platter mass for the flywheel effect, but many manufacturers make their platters of pie tins these days. Quartz lock can be applied to any motor regardless of drive train, DD seems to make more use of it. The "cogging" I mentioned is not an electronic issue, it's a physics issue. A quartz locked phase loop speed control isn't immune to this cogging, imagine a stepping motor running at a controlled frequency- that's what I'm talking about.

(3) belt drive has the lowest noise due to the elastic properties of the belt- it absorbs the motor noise. And a high mass platter is beneficial here as well- if not only for the flywheel effect. Belts can also absorb motor cogging presented by cheap motors. Belts stretch with time, but everything needs some maintenance.

(4) motors with a high number of poles run smoother- a 24 pole versus a 2 pole for example. There are more attraction / repulsion phases per revolution, and the phases are much smaller in relation to the motor rotation moment.

ALL TURNTABLES ARE A COMPROMISE!​

Well, all that is what I think I know, and I don't know nothin' else...

Even those ones that dude's mount two tonearms to me look silly.

Yeah... Two and three arms around a platter... I guess it makes sense, different tracking abilities and cartridge voices...
But it does look strange to me, too...

 

[Fast Forward]

My first Good TT was a Dual 1229 which I kept at the GFs house,,when we split she kept it along with my Auto Reverse Akai and my Marantz receiver, I guess you can put a price on a good time