What Is difference between low ang high output?

[62vauxhall]

So the Super has a higher output than a standard MC10. I never saw those specs before but it's voltage still seems pretty darn low. The blurb mentions being able to connect to any amp's MC input without need of an additional step up device. Presumably they refer to a transformer? I was always under the impression that an MC input would accommodate the spectrum of low output MC's and a step up transformer was for amplifiers that weren't so equipped. I also had the understanding that a head amplifier such as the Pegasus was a transformer alternative.

 

[Northwinds]

I am using a Ortofon MC20 Super II and it is super low output. I think the recommended loading is 10ohms but it sounds good at 30 and 100 also


[TABLE="class: cartdb_main"]
[TR]
[TD]Ortofon
MC 20 Super mkII

rate/review

[/TD]
[TD]
[TABLE="class: cartdb"]
[TR]
[TD]Type
moving coil
[/TD]
[TD]Output Voltage
mV .02
[/TD]
[TD]Frequency Response
20Hz - 40kHz
[/TD]
[TD]Tracking Force
1.6 - 2.0g
[/TD]
[TD]Mass
10g
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Channel Separation
25dB
[/TD]
[TD]Channel Balance
1dB
[/TD]
[TD]Load Impedance
> 10 ohms
[/TD]
[TD]Output Impedance
5 ohms
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Stylus
[/TD]
[TD]Stylus Tip
nude FG80 5/80um
[/TD]
[TD]Cantilever
Aluminium
[/TD]
[TD]Dynamic Compliance
x 10-6cm/Dyne
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[marcok]

What about high output MC carts like Ortofon MC 1 Turbo ?
3.3 mV , 47 kOhm and 220 €.
Have they a little step up transformer inside ?
Ciao
Marco

 

[roccus]

So what changes the output of a cartridge magnet size coil size?

 

[BlazeES]

So what changes the output of a cartridge magnet size coil size?

0.3 mv (at the time) was a big jump in output. It was the evolution of things.

The voltage out is a product of the EMF (electromotive-force). In basic principal, the more coil windings or the higher flux density of the magnet, the higher the voltage output.
Technically speaking, both designs employ magnets & coils - the difference is in which part is connected to the cantilever thereby which part "moves".

Since the days of the MC10 Super, there have actually been moving coil carts that have output voltages nearly as high as reigning moving magnet designs,
which meant you could use a MM Phone stage to pick them up. In my opinion, they still sucked because the back-end gain was simply not there.

Moving magnet designs have come all long way since the 80's and 90's.

The difference in performance is like splitting hairs anymore, if you ask me ... but the pricing delta can still be h-uuuuuuu-ge.

 

[BlazeES]

So the Super has a higher output than a standard MC10. I never saw those specs before but it's voltage still seems pretty darn low. The blurb mentions being able to connect to any amp's MC input without need of an additional step up device. Presumably they refer to a transformer? I was always under the impression that an MC input would accommodate the spectrum of low output MC's and a step up transformer was for amplifiers that weren't so equipped.

Your impressions are spot on.

 

[roccus]

This is why I think if your going to buy a new cart and don't like buying new stuff all the time... I like to buy something decent first time around that I can keep using for years to come to me an MM cart is the best choice for me when I see the price of an MC then see you have to send it out if you need a new stylus down the road which can cost almost as much as a whole new cart, with the MM cart stylus replacement is not no where near the expense and best of all I can do it myself.

I would think their would be a difference in a new modern cart compared to my 40 year old pickering XV15 cart.. in it's day that was a decent cart for the money.

0.3 mv (at the time) was a big jump in output. It was the evolution of things.

The voltage out is a product of the EMF (electromotive-force). In basic principal, the more coil windings or the higher flux density of the magnet, the higher the voltage output.
Technically speaking, both designs employ magnets & coils - the difference is in which part is connected to the cantilever thereby which part "moves".

Since the days of the MC10 Super, there have actually been moving coil carts that have output voltages nearly as high as reigning moving magnet designs,
which meant you could use a MM Phone stage to pick them up. In my opinion, they still sucked because the back-end gain was simply not there.

Moving magnet designs have come all long way since the 80's and 90's.

The difference in performance is like splitting hairs anymore, if you ask me ... but the pricing delta can still be h-uuuuuuu-ge.

 

[MarkWComer]

So what changes the output of a cartridge magnet size coil size?

The magnets themselves have undergone some changes. It used to be that alnico was the highest gauss magnet you could get (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alnico) but now newer alloys have increased the magnetic fields of permanent magnets (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neodymium_magnet).

These new high-gauss magnetic alloys have since found their way into all aspects of magnetic applications, including the lowly ol' phono cartridge.

 

[Fishoz]

A few of us here are using the AT 440mla. A good cartridge that doesn't break the bank. Touted to be a bit harsh at first but it tamed down after break in.

You will find the cost fair to what is out there, you can definitely spend quite a bit more....point of diminishing return???? You'll have to be the judge.

BTW - works very well with my Pro-Ject (basically a mirror of the Music Halls). Good luck! You will probably be collecting cartridges for the next few years - some will work well, you will hear differences. Gotta keep going until you hear one you like. I have found great success buying cheap used turntables with some very good sounding cartridges on them (buy a $20 TT just for the cartridge - YES).

Currently running only 1 TT with the 440mla on it. Back ups, AT13E, A vintage Shure (not sure of the # - NOS for $20 that sounded fantastic) and a couple of fair Grado Blacks.Also have a few non entity cartridges that I will mount on any of my TT's should I decide to sell them - I will never give up a cartridge that I like....

 

[BlazeES]

Hell ya on the AT 440. In my humble opinion, it's the best cartridge for the money in terms of performance vs. cost vs. the wide compatibility of tables/arms.

I ran one for nearly 10 years and loved it.

A few of us here are using the AT 440mla. A good cartridge that doesn't break the bank. Touted to be a bit harsh at first but it tamed down after break in.

You will find the cost fair to what is out there, you can definitely spend quite a bit more....point of diminishing return???? You'll have to be the judge.

BTW - works very well with my Pro-Ject (basically a mirror of the Music Halls). Good luck! You will probably be collecting cartridges for the next few years - some will work well, you will hear differences. Gotta keep going until you hear one you like. I have found great success buying cheap used turntables with some very good sounding cartridges on them (buy a $20 TT just for the cartridge - YES).

Currently running only 1 TT with the 440mla on it. Back ups, AT13E, A vintage Shure (not sure of the # - NOS for $20 that sounded fantastic) and a couple of fair Grado Blacks.Also have a few non entity cartridges that I will mount on any of my TT's should I decide to sell them - I will never give up a cartridge that I like....

 

[R1200S]

I got this link in an email overnight. The title is:
[h=1]Hi-Fi+ Guide to Analogue Audio 2016[/h]Obviously from HiFi+ magazine. Click on DOWNLOAD THE PDF to get the full Guide.

http://www.hifiplus.com/buyers_guides/4/

The prices are truly absurd for the most part but there are some decent discussions on turntable setup, explanations of cartridge types, turntable suspension differences, etc.

 

[roccus]

Thanks I will look it over this evening

I got this link in an email overnight. The title is:
Hi-Fi+ Guide to Analogue Audio 2016

Obviously from HiFi+ magazine. Click on DOWNLOAD THE PDF to get the full Guide.

http://www.hifiplus.com/buyers_guides/4/

The prices are truly absurd for the most part but there are some decent discussions on turntable setup, explanations of cartridge types, turntable suspension differences, etc.

 

[MarkWComer]

Hell ya on the AT 440. In my humble opinion, it's the best cartridge for the money in terms of performance vs. cost vs. the wide compatibility of tables/arms.

A few of us here are using the AT 440mla. A good cartridge that doesn't break the bank. Touted to be a bit harsh at first but it tamed down after break in.

And a third nod to the AT440MLa. Using it with a Dual 1229Q and it sounds great. Break-in period seemed to be a bit long. Current iteration is the AT440MLb, probably only slightly changed.

Believe it or not, I bought it through the Home Depot website: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Audio-Te...Cartridge-AT440MLB/206888742?keyword=at440mlb

 

[roccus]

lol... HD the last place I would ever thing to look for a cartridge

And a third nod to the AT440MLa. Using it with a Dual 1229Q and it sounds great. Break-in period seemed to be a bit long. Current iteration is the AT440MLb, probably only slightly changed.

Believe it or not, I bought it through the Home Depot website: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Audio-Te...Cartridge-AT440MLB/206888742?keyword=at440mlb

 

[Northwinds]

As crazy as it sounds Ray, HD does sell phono carts. I have never been a fan of AT carts but they do make some very decent ones. I prefer Ortofon, Benz and Soundsmith carts. I also love the Shure V15 type III and IV

EDIT: I do have one or two AT carts floating around the house, LC120 and LC125