What Is difference between low ang high output?

roccus

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#1
what is difference between low and high output on a moving coil cartridge... pros cons of each type?
 

R1200S

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#2
That's a HUGE question and I'd suggest you do lots of your own research on the subject. The most obvious answer is in the question, output level. Most high output MC carts can be used with a "standard" phono preamp or receiver phono section. The low output carts will likely require a phono preamp capable of amplifying that low level signal enough for your preamp to feed on to your amplifier. Many stand alone phono preamps have this capability.

Again, do your own research. Phono cartridges, tonearms and turntables are pretty much a genre all their own. Good luck!
 

roccus

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#3
well as far as sound or reproduction quality it there really that much difference between MM and MO cartridges that can really be heard?

MC carts can be used with a "standard" phono preamp or receiver phono section. The low output carts will likely require a phono preamp capable of amplifying that low level signal enough for your preamp to feed on to your amplifier. Many stand alone phono preamps have this capability.

Again, do your own research. Phono cartridges, tonearms and turntables are pretty much a genre all their own. Good luck![/QUOTE]
 

BlazeES

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#4
There once was a time when the difference was far more noticeable on a decent system.
I use to be a huge Ortofon MC guy. I could hear a difference but the trade offs really weren't worth it in the long run.

Sound quality is a touchy subject though ... subjective as all get up. I think it's more like splitting hairs now days IMHO.
Others will call it a case of diminishing returns for the coin spent.

MM carts have come a long way up in performance and you can get a high performing one without breaking the bank.

There's good discussions on this topic on the Hoffman forums and on the web in general.



well as far as sound or reproduction quality it there really that much difference between MM and MO cartridges that can really be heard?
 
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R1200S

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#5
There are a ton of factors involved in all of that. The obvious answer is to go listen to some but there's practically no place any more to audition ANY audio gear that's worth a damn. This all boils down to the combination of cartridge, tonearm and turntable and how well those match up. Conventional wisdom would say that the moving coil cart is the best simply because they cost more. But... I suspect that a properly setup moving magnet cart will sound excellent to most of us.

I'm sort of in this boat right now myself. (I just bought a Schiit Mani preamp. $130 and I really like it so far.) I'm looking at buying a new cartridge for my Denon TT and Stax tonearm. Currently I'm looking at tonearm/cartridge compliance matching. Another big can of worms!! With all these factors it just boils down to that age old solution.... what sounds best to you and the type of music you listen to. At my age, I just can't see investing in a high dollar cartridge that will produce sound and nuances that I can no longer hear.

One of my favorite sites to visit is Michael Fremer's, Analog Planet website. He also has a Youtube channel.

I also like Youtube videos by a guy out of Singapore (in English). Search Youtube for HiViNyws channel. The one thing you can't do on Youtube is LISTEN to differences. Their quality isn't good enough. This guy has descriptions I like and make sense. He just finished up a review series of Under $100 MM carts.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLtHpriGymYP9h-SQyUSQkmnHwURz4ivMf
 

MarkWComer

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#6
Moving magnet carts have pretty big coils in them to pick up the impulses from the vibrating magnets in the cantilever. Since in a MC cart it is the coils that vibrate, those coils are smaller to assure enough compliance to track the record. Smaller coils of course will create less current.

Another drawback: Since the coils are connected to the cantilever, the stylus is not user replaceable because of the delicate alignment between all parts concerned. Additionally, most MC carts I've seen also require heavier tracking pressure- probably a necessity due to the mass of those coils and the tracking requirements of the stylus/groove (my theory...).

MC are supposedly better performers, but as for me personally, I just can't justify the expense.
 

roccus

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#7
Not good if you can't replace the stylus.. I was just checking these out they are crazy expensive looks like if you need a new stylus you can send them out but it costs as much as a new one.. also saw some use bodies made of wood... seriously??? Hoe can that stay in spec? Wood contracts and expands all the time and this is on something they talk about tight specs all the time. I doubt my 60 year old ears could ever hear the difference between a MM and a MO cartage my ears have had a tuff life in fact I need to run my treble wide ope to try to hear highs I know are their in a song am thinking of replacing my tweeter horns in my speakers to another horn that might project the hi notes louder.. but that is just a thought right now

Moving magnet carts have pretty big coils in them to pick up the impulses from the vibrating magnets in the cantilever. Since in a MC cart it is the coils that vibrate, those coils are smaller to assure enough compliance to track the record. Smaller coils of course will create less current.

Another drawback: Since the coils are connected to the cantilever, the stylus is not user replaceable because of the delicate alignment between all parts concerned. Additionally, most MC carts I've seen also require heavier tracking pressure- probably a necessity due to the mass of those coils and the tracking requirements of the stylus/groove (my theory...).

MC are supposedly better performers, but as for me personally, I just can't justify the expense.
 

62vauxhall

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#8
I used to have access to as many cartridges as my heart desired and in the mid 1980's I dabbled a bit with low output MC's. Tried a couple high outputs too but in those days, i dismissed them immediately.

My first low output was an Akai (aka Audio Technica) and it's companion step up transformer. Did not really care for it much as it seemed to handle the bass information differently than the Shure and Stanton MM's I was mostly using. In the early 1990's a co-worker who had a pair of mono Quad tube amps and ESL-63 speakers, upgraded his Ortofon MC cartridge which I bought for $75. Got a Pegasus head amplifier designed and built by another co-worker and did not warm up to that sound either. Plus I was a bit concerned about the non-user replaceable stylus. Every few years I would try it again but each time I went back to Shures/Stantons.

Doubtful I ever will but if that bug bites again, I still have another Audio Technica variant called a Signet TK9E that is supposed to be a shit hot MC. But it came with no stylus and those are a bit steep - if you can find one.

Big generalization, but I came to the conclusion that MC's might be best suited for genres of music I don't listen to. I prefer MM's.
 

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#9
Gary: Funny you mentioned a Pegasus amplifier, as I have one here, still unopened in its box. Hand-written ser # on the outside of the carton is 196. And I have an Ortophon MC-10 cartridge, sitting here, too.

Nando.
 
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Elite-ist

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#11
True fact, Joe. Was that a double-positive statement?

Nando.
 

62vauxhall

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#17
Gary: Funny you mentioned a Pegasus amplifier, as I have one here, still unopened in its box. Hand-written ser # on the outside of the carton is 196. And I have an Ortophon MC-10 cartridge, sitting here, too.

Nando.
Even more coincidental, the Ortofon i had was also an MC10 but a Super whatever that meant.

The Pegasus probably says Made in Canada Sardis, BC. The person responsible for those was someone I worked with - Charlie. He fixed TV's where he grew up in Chilliwack blasting the the chassis clean with a garden hose. We met first in 1988 and I learned he designed and built amplifiers and preamps calling them CK along with Pegasus head amplifiers. I remember him telling me about shipping stuff in the winter to a dealer in Alberta by rail but the units were affected by extreme cold once they hit the mountains and that spelled the end of CK Electronics.

He would still provide amplifiers and preamps to co-workers and friends and would build them according to their speakers. I remember them being 100 watts per channel in stereo but he'd also make mono units. He did not believe in bridging stereo amplifiers. IA had a CK preamp on their website with a "price pending" tag and I was seriously thinking about buying it. But when I called to ask how much, was told it was already sold. JR (DJ or whatever) said it went for $225. I still talk to Charlie now and then and thought it would be kind of a kick if I told him I finally bought one of his preamps. He now teaches computer programming at BCIT.

You will notice the removable resistors on the Pegasus. For what it's worth I was told those with the unit would be optimal for an Ortfon MC10.
 

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#18
Gary : I will post pictures of it, later, on a different thread. Charlie would be pleased to know I've got one still intact and as new.

Nando.
 
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