Tracking issues & inner groove distortion concerns

[Pure_Brew]

Currently I have an AT440mla, which features a microline stylus. (Technics SL-1800 TT)

So, far, of all the cartridge types I have ever tried, the AT440mla tracks better then anything I have yet come across, and it is also the most expensive cart I own.

Now, some people do not have tracking or reported inner groove distortion on the Shure M97xe. But I do. This may be mostly due to used/worn records but not always.

Most of the differences that I have found between these two carts are not uncommon however, as I have read over time across the net.

If people are not having any issues with elliptical or even conical styli, could it be a difference regarding issues with different arms? (given alignment is also set properly)

What concerns me is that if I can only get something as good as a microline to perform to my satisfaction, then that would knock a lot of choices off my list, which seems unfortunate.

Thank you.


***I did order a JICO SAS and I appreciate Larry's communication and help on the Shure. Unfortunately it'll probably be at least 5 weeks before I get my order....***

 

[Lazarus Short]

You're going to have to consider what I eventually did, and that was to ditch all my radial-arm turntables, and use a linear-tracker. There's no fiddling with a protractor, for alignment is set at all parts of the LP, inner grooves and all.

 

[orange]

Well maybe so, but I've had a couple and they're just alien to me, can't warm up to one.

I accepted brussel sprouts without cheese but not LT.

 

[speakerman1]

What does it sound like? I don't hear it. Maybe it is in the damaged hearing range. Maybe you listen to hard. LOL I can tell as soon as I drop the cart if the stylus is dirty.

 

[jbeckva]

What does it sound like? I don't hear it. Maybe it is in the damaged hearing range. Maybe you listen to hard. LOL I can tell as soon as I drop the cart if the stylus is dirty.

Definitely plagued me a bit til I got me the SL-Q5 linear... which is workin good still, but this Xonar still has me as the digital heretic I am, lol...

 

[Pure_Brew]

What does it sound like? I don't hear it. Maybe it is in the damaged hearing range. Maybe you listen to hard. LOL I can tell as soon as I drop the cart if the stylus is dirty.

Do you know what mistracking sounds like and/or what that is?

Inner groove distortion is basically that, it just starts happening as you get toward the end of the album. Also it kind of reminds me of highly compressed MP3. The record starts out fine until you get toward the end. Not something that you have to try to hear.

Best way I can explain the dynamics of it, and why Linear Tracking arms are not a bad idea as Lazarus pointed out, is due to the way the stylus fits in the groove. It's less of an issue on the outer grooves because the circles are so much bigger. As you get to the inner grooves, the circles are much smaller, so the stylus sits in the groove there at a more of an angle/higher forces.

When you use a protractor for alignment, often there are two grids to line up to. However, done perfectly, those are also going to be the only two points where the stylus will be in perfect angle with the groove. Hence the idea of using Linear Tracking arms, because they hold the stylus, ideally, in the proper angle from the beginning to the end of a record.

So take the example of standard two-point alignment where you are going to be changing angle for most of the record and add in other forces. It would be like driving a car in a circle at a high rate of speed, versus driving in a very small circle at the same high speed. You'd be comfortable driving in the big circle but would have to hang on for dear life loosing traction as the circle gets smaller.

 

[speakerman1]

Ok so the cent. force would be greater on the inside. Am I correct? Have you tried adjusting the anti-skate to compensate? You can get protractors to check the points any where you like. Would that help?

 

[Pure_Brew]

Ok so the cent. force would be greater on the inside. Am I correct? Have you tried adjusting the anti-skate to compensate? You can get protractors to check the points any where you like. Would that help?

Yes you can align the cart to just the inner most portion. You get higher distortion on all the rest then, but not nearly as severe.

The Shure will do fine in many cases. However, I think that kind of price point is going to also lend itself to folks who might like to buy used records (like me). Which will make matters worse, playing over old damage. This is also where the AT microline stylus shines, because you will often bypass old wear/damage.

I am of course hoping the SAS on the Shure will solve some of these issues. But I'm still thinking down the road about different cartridge choices. (and turntables etc.)

 

[Lazarus Short]

Here's a crazy idea - set up a second turntable with the cartridge aligned for optimization on the inner grooves. Or go linear...

 

[Pure_Brew]

Here's a crazy idea - set up a second turntable with the cartridge aligned for optimization on the inner grooves. Or go linear...

Actually, I just solved the problem this week. The basic Rega arm on the Sota Moonbeam II, with an M97xe/JICO SAS cured the issue.

Finally~!