The Rarest Electrostatic Speaker?

[krellmk]

Sony SS R10 electrostatics loudspealers.
The Vintage Knob .
Part of the exclusive, xxx-rare and utterly unobtainium R10 set of units, the electrostatic SS-R10 loudspeaker may well be Sony's most rare unit.

Unlike many high-end products, make that ultra-highend outerspace byproducts, the dipole SS-R10 didn't boast a super-conductive membrane from planet Mars or a newly developped directionality controller made after a thorough study of the bat's sonar and wings movements.

Nope - the SS-R10 loudspeaker just took on the (very old) electrostatic theory and pushed it enough to overcome its well-known problems and shortcomings.

Although most high-end units from Sony were developped in a colloquial way, the SS-R10 was a one-man project, as theearlier SS-G333ES and SS-G777ES had been.

But it took a long time, however, a very long time

 

[D-500 Flogger]

I followed the SS-G333ES link, and found this excerpt fascinating:


"Since 100% non-resonant enclosures are science-fiction only, why not tune the residual resonances to something useful ?
Well, the enclosure and baffle of the G333ES are tuned to resonate at 365Hz (rear), 457Hz (sides) and 550Hz (top).

And those frequencies are the equivalent of the following musical notes : DO, FA and LA (C, F and A for you anglo-saxon people).

The G333ES is a musical instrument in itself - how's that for engineering extra-ordinaire ? "

****

From my perspective, I think that this does show a serious attention to detail. Elsewhere I referenced vintage speakers where the cabinets themselves put out a sizeable amount of acoustic energy...and this was not by design. (As a matter of fact, I seem to remember that in the chase for a completely inert cabinet, some speakers were double-walled, and the 1/2" space between the walls were filled with sand? And certain speaker stands (for mini-monitors) had their hollow legs filled with lead shot?)

****

Once upon a time (early '90s?) I had a fascinating technical article in a car magazine (since lost, and I can't locate a replacement) where they discussed NHV (Noise, Harshness, & Vibration) in detail. The most interesting part was that the engineer being interviewed explained that the goal was not to just stop at the lowest level possible sound...for that sound may actually be irritating to people. Instead, the most successful approach is to characterize *all* the sounds, and keep removing them, one by one, until the dominant remaining sound is pleasing and/or reinforces the 'character' of the vehicle. (Part of the allure of the old MGs was the backdrop of the melodious engine growl. There may have not have been a whole lotta go under the hood, but the drivetrain made the car feel 'alive', and the soundtrack was pure road racer. those old sports cars were great fun to drive. And great fun for the passenger. :0)

The engineer went on to explain that by using the 'pleasing' sound to mask even lower, unpleasant sounds was the best way to go. And given my reaction (or lack of reaction) to most modern cars I think he's right. A lot of cars these days are so polite & refined that there's no real feedback, and makes for a very passive (ie: boring) driving experience.

****

...back to audio stuff. I would be intrigued to hear a set of these in person. And if that couldn't be arranged, the next best thing would be a careful MLSSA plot to see if these 'notes' could be seen in the decay...

Thanks for sharing!

 

[krellmk]

I have 2 Sony dvd/cd machine Sony DVP-S7000 and Sony DVP-S7700 the day i got these machines i stop using the Opo both machines was under $100 on the Bay i was told one of these machines that the chassis was lined with some kinna copper never open to confirm great cd players

 

[D-500 Flogger]

krellmk, I just poked around a bit, and from what I could find one of the main differences between the -S7000 and the -S7700 was that the latter was upgraded to a copper chassis:



1) The build quality speaks for itself. (!)

2) For what it's worth, I've seen max-effort areas inside some cost-no-object Avionics boxes where copper shielding had been employed to reduce interaction/crosstalk/RFI/noise-floor kinda issues.

Given the above, it looks like the design engineers had more sway with the product manager than the bean counters did. This player was to Sony as the Corvette was to Chevrolet. (ie: a low-volume Halo product to help give the manufacturer's cost-constrained high-volume 'mainstream' products more 'street cred'. )

Neat. I can always appreciate a max-effort product...

 

[krellmk]

krellmk, I just poked around a bit, and from what I could find one of the main differences between the -S7000 and the -S7700 was that the latter was upgraded to a copper chassis:

View attachment 59895

1) The build quality speaks for itself. (!)

2) For what it's worth, I've seen max-effort areas inside some cost-no-object Avionics boxes where copper shielding had been employed to reduce interaction/crosstalk/RFI/noise-floor kinda issues.

Given the above, it looks like the design engineers had more sway with the product manager than the bean counters did. This player was to Sony as the Corvette was to Chevrolet. (ie: a low-volume Halo product to help give the manufacturer's cost-constrained high-volume products more 'street cred'. )

Neat. I can always appreciate a max-effort product...

Wow!!! these should be a never let go items.. i always admire the stuff from Japan, Accuphase was the big catch..Thanks for sharing

 

[J!m]

Copper plated steel is the hot ticket.

Counterpoint did it on my amps too.

 

[NeverSatisfied]

Sony ES gear from the 80’s and early 90’s was really good stuff, especially their SACD players. Over the years I have had a bunch of it and still do. They were pushing the limits on design in many areas, including speakers.

 

[Lazarus Short]

I have 2 Sony dvd/cd machine Sony DVP-S7000 and Sony DVP-S7700 the day i got these machines i stop using the Opo both machines was under $100 on the Bay i was told one of these machines that the chassis was lined with some kinna copper never open to confirm great cd players

I have the DVP-S7000 - great machine! I pulled it from a pile of DVD players stacked like cordwood at a thrift store - thirty bucks. It is one of my better scrounges, but then, most of my gear is scrounged.

 

[NeverSatisfied]

I followed the SS-G333ES link, and found this excerpt fascinating:


"Since 100% non-resonant enclosures are science-fiction only, why not tune the residual resonances to something useful ?
Well, the enclosure and baffle of the G333ES are tuned to resonate at 365Hz (rear), 457Hz (sides) and 550Hz (top).

And those frequencies are the equivalent of the following musical notes : DO, FA and LA (C, F and A for you anglo-saxon people).

The G333ES is a musical instrument in itself - how's that for engineering extra-ordinaire ? "

****

From my perspective, I think that this does show a serious attention to detail. Elsewhere I referenced vintage speakers where the cabinets themselves put out a sizeable amount of acoustic energy...and this was not by design. (As a matter of fact, I seem to remember that in the chase for a completely inert cabinet, some speakers were double-walled, and the 1/2" space between the walls were filled with sand? And certain speaker stands (for mini-monitors) had their hollow legs filled with lead shot?)

****

Once upon a time (early '90s?) I had a fascinating technical article in a car magazine (since lost, and I can't locate a replacement) where they discussed NHV (Noise, Harshness, & Vibration) in detail. The most interesting part was that the engineer being interviewed explained that the goal was not to just stop at the lowest possible sound...for that sound may be irritating to people. Instead, the most successful approach is to characterize *all* the sounds, and keep removing them, one by one, until the dominant remaining sound is pleasing and/or reinforces the 'character' of the vehicle. (Part of the allure of the old MGs was the backdrop of the melodious engine growl. There may have not have been a whole lotta go under the hood, but the drivetrain made the car feel 'alive', and the soundtrack was pure road racer. those old sports cars were great fun to drive. And great fun for the passenger. :0)

The engineer went on to explain that by using the 'pleasing' sound to mask even lower, unpleasant sounds was the best way to go. And given my reaction (or lack of reaction) to most modern cars I think he's right. A lot of cars these days are so polite & refined that there's no real feedback, and makes for a very passive (ie: boring) driving experience.

****

...back to audio stuff. I would be intrigued to hear a set of these in person. And if that couldn't be arranged, the next best thing would be a careful MLSSA plot to see if these 'notes' could be seen in the decay...

Thanks for sharing!

Several car makers have used the idea of tuning the mechanical sounds to enhance the experience. I have a Jaguar F type R that is to many one of the best sounding machines ever made. Jaguar went to great lengths to tune the exhaust and even made it adjustable from Wow to Holy shit. They even put in what they call a Symposer which is a sound tube running from the engine bay into the passenger foot well area. Some people defeat this feature because it’s all too much but left mine alone.

 

[VSAT88]

The Rarest Electrostatic Speaker?
The ones I don't have... But I am still looking !

 

[nakdoc]

So my old friend and mentor Bob Hoover has produced the rarest electrostat that real people can buy.

http://superlativeaudio.com/

 

[NeverSatisfied]

Looks like something Arnie Nudell would have designed.

 

[J!m]

How do they sound? The amplifier technology seems interesting as well.

 

[nakdoc]

I've never heard the system at Bob's house, but he has told me the loooong story of how he went from modifying various Beveridges to finally starting over. The resonance issues cited by Sony is a real issue because the THD from an electrostat is so darn low that nothing is masked. I've forgotten what the clever trick Bob uses to control resonance, but I think it is mostly high precision machining. Beveridges would take them selves apart and rattle. Adding 10 times as much glue didn't reduce the rattle by 10.
Bob sold some tech patents to fund his build project. If one of you wins the lottery he's up in Portland, OR.

 

[nakdoc]

Bob and I fiddled around with stereos with a group of audiophiles around 1975-77. One project we worked on was a hand made true class A power amp that put out 5 watts of amazing sound for about a week (then you needed new output transistors. and you were good for another week) Bob later discovered that the amp became super incredible sounding when running on batteries. How long did it take Rowland to discover the same? I have no clue what is going on in his dedicated amps but if I remember correctly, they will only run a capacitive load.