Speakers

Joe, the horns were a little harsh to my ears also till Al K's crossovers, utterly delicious now.
 
Pure_Brew said:
Fruitless because I never finished them. I used Vance's book, CALSOD and speaker workshop. My first x-over design sounded like ass. I realized after that I
Needed a quality mic and a better space for testing. Other life issues put me on a side track for over 10 years now. I still have the mdt33's and mw164' in a test enclosure. Capping off the tweeter, a couple resistors and some tone controls have provided at least a glimpse of what the could be capable of under more desirable conditions.

I've thought about getting restarted over the past year, with help from a neighbor and madisound, but I've been busy with work and 3 kids. Plus its been nice to just listen to music rather then fret over differences. My inner geek still wants to try more though.
I found some xovers, swedish maybe. The tweeter is like 92.5 db and the mid is around 86 fyi.
Click to expand...

I build with whatever was in the cabinet STOCK, or reuse nice crossovers I've found or bought over the years.

I'm not building a 1.3 kW monster rig anyway, my most powerful is the 120 W SX-D7000. My average speakers are 45-70 watts. I deal with several small Realistic and other speakers in the 30 W and under range as well.
 
@ Orange: do you mean you just modify stock?

@ laatsch55: I'm sure xover tweeks and the right amplification go a long way. I doubt that was the case in any of the demo's I've had. While I don't find preference, it doesn't mean I don't like them at all (horn)

@Larry: I glad you're interested in these. I actually fell in love with the sound of the morel duets, which use the exact driver complement, although my woofers are 4ohm which also came with a slightly higher efficiency rating- cant remember 100%.

As much as I liked the sound of the duets, I feel that the morel 6 inch driver is really just a big midrange driver. The duets preformed beautifully but fortunately could bottom out easily in the TL cabinet. Lowish sensitivity and shallow xmax. Seems like recommendations put this in a sealed enclosure, which makes sense to me. However I noticed kits were pretty much unheard of for this and I think the above says why.

One company that I thought had and interesting approach to these was eggelston in the early (first?) Andra. The morel 6's were used as midranges only,and the bass was a dynaudio 12 ( x2 iso config). This made sense to me based on 1: My experience with the power handling in lower frequencies and 2: I had the driver tested by a reliable loudspeaker engineer.

When I had the driver tested, I was really looking to confirm if my basic instrument/PC setup was working properly, which as it turned out was. What I wasn't expecting was the recommended 9 liter sealed enclosure. What I didn't understand was that it wasn't going to give the driver good sound in a two way, so when I did make those cabinets, I was having a rough time with the sound.

That being said, the 9 liter suggestion was probably spot on as a midrange . And would i have to say that tests involving drums that could kill normal drivers never sounded more amazing, just no deep bass.

So here is where I want to go... I would like to add a third driver to these and make a tower. If I go for a pair of bass drivers from madisound I can get a complete xover design from them. That would Likely be a pair of SB acoustics 12's.

In the mean time i'll think on the two way, very kind of you to offer the help. Do you think 4k is a bit high for this MW164? Seems like it would create a bit of a dip in the off axis.

Here's a TL design I found.
[attachment=1:lxvkvwir]morelline_eng.pdf[/attachment:lxvkvwir]

Here are the old test boxes, 1 inch MDF, braced. Front baffle is 2 inches thick.

[attachment=0:lxvkvwir]MDT33-MW164 001.jpg[/attachment:lxvkvwir]
 

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Pure_Brew said:
@ Orange: do you mean you just modify stock?
Click to expand...

I don't tend to modify much at all. If I have cabs, crossovers and speakers to fit or close enough to adapt, bingo. The closest to modifying I have in the works is a pair of cabs made for a pair of coaxial E-V 12's I got empty and I need to seal the corners for vinyl covering, finish mounting the horn tweeters where the big rectangular port was above the 12's and cut similar holes for midrange horns and then work out the 3 way crossovers I will use and what I will do inside.

Why? Because I had a pair of Pioneer PA 12's I was traded and I had seen them written up in a project on Parts Express' site (the model was long ago discontinued) and I wanted to try.

I have a hunch I will be using a rear port in the door.

So the cabinets tend to stay stock and if there was a good crossover in them I try that out too. Usually the crossover stays. I start with a woofer I like and then add a midrange I know I like and since I have a number of different woofers, mids and tweeters I can experiment. My Pioneer towers were ones all Pioneer but 70s, 80s and 90s until a tweeter got messed up and I replaced them with 70s Onkyos from a CBS Masterwork wedge pair that were crap otherwise.

The highs were a lot better balanced with the 5" FB mids and 8" mid bass with 12" woofer (8" was standard on the tower and the 12" CS-77?).

If I could get $50 together I buy a wedding present pair back from the pawn. That one is FB stuff too and Altec ring tweeters. I didn't reskin the grilles well but I'm learning. The HK 930 I gave them got away...
 
Pure_Brew said:
@ Orange: do you mean you just modify stock?

@ laatsch55: I'm sure xover tweeks and the right amplification go a long way. I doubt that was the case in any of the demo's I've had. While I don't find preference, it doesn't mean I don't like them at all (horn)

@Larry: I glad you're interested in these. I actually fell in love with the sound of the morel duets, which use the exact driver complement, although my woofers are 4ohm which also came with a slightly higher efficiency rating- cant remember 100%.

As much as I liked the sound of the duets, I feel that the morel 6 inch driver is really just a big midrange driver. The duets preformed beautifully but fortunately could bottom out easily in the TL cabinet. Lowish sensitivity and shallow xmax. Seems like recommendations put this in a sealed enclosure, which makes sense to me. However I noticed kits were pretty much unheard of for this and I think the above says why.

One company that I thought had and interesting approach to these was eggelston in the early (first?) Andra. The morel 6's were used as midranges only,and the bass was a dynaudio 12 ( x2 iso config). This made sense to me based on 1: My experience with the power handling in lower frequencies and 2: I had the driver tested by a reliable loudspeaker engineer.

When I had the driver tested, I was really looking to confirm if my basic instrument/PC setup was working properly, which as it turned out was. What I wasn't expecting was the recommended 9 liter sealed enclosure. What I didn't understand was that it wasn't going to give the driver good sound in a two way, so when I did make those cabinets, I was having a rough time with the sound.

That being said, the 9 liter suggestion was probably spot on as a midrange . And would i have to say that tests involving drums that could kill normal drivers never sounded more amazing, just no deep bass.

So here is where I want to go... I would like to add a third driver to these and make a tower. If I go for a pair of bass drivers from madisound I can get a complete xover design from them. That would Likely be a pair of SB acoustics 12's.

In the mean time i'll think on the two way, very kind of you to offer the help. Do you think 4k is a bit high for this MW164? Seems like it would create a bit of a dip in the off axis.

Here's a TL design I found.
[attachment=1:1s5se081]morelline_eng.pdf[/attachment:1s5se081]

Here are the old test boxes, 1 inch MDF, braced. Front baffle is 2 inches thick.

[attachment=0:1s5se081]MDT33-MW164 001.jpg[/attachment:1s5se081]
Click to expand...
If I remember right they will go to 6K. So no. Down to 45 weren't they? It doesn't matter what 6 inch you use you aren't going to get the big bass sound. They can't move enough air to give it to you. Dayton makes a nice 12 inch for the money. But in saying that I'll bet you could build a very nice bookshelf with what you have. I never went by what the equipment said. I went by my ears.

Larry
 
Yesterday, after coming home from work, I checked the Innovative Audio web site. IA has a Facebook page, as well, and the odd time I'll comment on the latest topic, using Geri's Facebook log-in. Gordon has a Facebook Special, usually weekly, and it just so happened he offered up a pair of Web "Phoenix" speakers for a ridiculous price. You would have a hard time finding information on these speakers as they were hand-built in Vancouver, Canada. In the early 80's, a few of my friends, who were older than me by about 5 years, had Web speakers. They were impressive and I recall Mike L. used a Phase Linear amplifier to drive them, while Lorne E. used a Pioneer Spec 1 amplifier in his set-up. I don't know if the ones I'm picking up tomorrow would be the same physically: all I remember was an unusual grille cloth treatment and very nice wood veneer cabinets from the ones I heard some 30 years ago. The Phoenix model features two 12" woofers, two 5" mid ranges, and a horn tweeter. The cabinet is 4' high!

Nando.
 
Pure_Brew said:
@ Orange: do you mean you just modify stock?

@ laatsch55: I'm sure xover tweeks and the right amplification go a long way. I doubt that was the case in any of the demo's I've had. While I don't find preference, it doesn't mean I don't like them at all (horn)

@Larry: I glad you're interested in these. I actually fell in love with the sound of the morel duets, which use the exact driver complement, although my woofers are 4ohm which also came with a slightly higher efficiency rating- cant remember 100%.

As much as I liked the sound of the duets, I feel that the morel 6 inch driver is really just a big midrange driver. The duets preformed beautifully but fortunately could bottom out easily in the TL cabinet. Lowish sensitivity and shallow xmax. Seems like recommendations put this in a sealed enclosure, which makes sense to me. However I noticed kits were pretty much unheard of for this and I think the above says why.

One company that I thought had and interesting approach to these was eggelston in the early (first?) Andra. The morel 6's were used as midranges only,and the bass was a dynaudio 12 ( x2 iso config). This made sense to me based on 1: My experience with the power handling in lower frequencies and 2: I had the driver tested by a reliable loudspeaker engineer.

When I had the driver tested, I was really looking to confirm if my basic instrument/PC setup was working properly, which as it turned out was. What I wasn't expecting was the recommended 9 liter sealed enclosure. What I didn't understand was that it wasn't going to give the driver good sound in a two way, so when I did make those cabinets, I was having a rough time with the sound.

That being said, the 9 liter suggestion was probably spot on as a midrange . And would i have to say that tests involving drums that could kill normal drivers never sounded more amazing, just no deep bass.

So here is where I want to go... I would like to add a third driver to these and make a tower. If I go for a pair of bass drivers from madisound I can get a complete xover design from them. That would Likely be a pair of SB acoustics 12's.

In the mean time i'll think on the two way, very kind of you to offer the help. Do you think 4k is a bit high for this MW164? Seems like it would create a bit of a dip in the off axis.

Here's a TL design I found.
[attachment=1:1oiie6ct]morelline_eng.pdf[/attachment:1oiie6ct]

Here are the old test boxes, 1 inch MDF, braced. Front baffle is 2 inches thick.

[attachment=0:1oiie6ct]MDT33-MW164 001.jpg[/attachment:1oiie6ct]
Click to expand...


Madisound is the way to go for a personal design, and it l;ooks like you have found the right drivers. I would let them know that you want a ported design with the bass as low as can be accomplished, and that you would prefer a design where the tweeter does not have to be padded, elimanating resistors from the circuit. This probably will mean two woofers. The designs Madisound has done for me turned out very well.....except them were a little hot for my taste, the tweeter was a little too loud.

I would talk to Madisound and see what they offer up. As for the crossover point for the Morel, typically you use double the fs point as the crossover frequency. This is just a rough guide however... and there are many nice tweeters out there. Go take a look at www.zaphaudio.com for some test results for different drivers. I have built several of his designs and he hits it out of the park..
 
Yesterday, Geri and I travelled into Vancouver to pick up a pair of speakers at Innovative Audio. I hadn't been at the store for a few months, so it was nice to drop in and visit Gordon, Susan, and Mark. There was a record sale going on with all LPs marked down to half price. That meant most mint vinyl was selling for about 3 dollars, or less. We bought seven records while there.

I'll post pictures and commentary of the "new' speakers in another thread. But while we were there, Gordon couldn't help but show me this monster. Anyone with electrostatic speakers, which are a bit bass deficient, could try this. It features a 30" passive radiator up front and two 18" JBL side firing speakers. It came form a musical production held in town.

DSC06549.jpg


The speakers I picked up just fit nicely between the middle bench seat and inside of the tailgate on my Buick Wagon. They measure 48" high, 14" across, and have an angled baffle with a side profile of 9" at the top and 12" at the base.

DSC06550.jpg


Nando.
 
Dig the sub-l,ounge chair!! Nando that's damn cool!!
 
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