Some Toroid Transformer Questions!!!!

laatsch55

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#1
Got a pair of big toroids, surplus from some Levinson gear.. Did not have a wiring diagram. I think I have identified primary and secondary. Resistance as follows-----

2- Primary windings

#1-- Red, Black, Green.
Ohms---Red-Black--.7 ohms
" " Red-Green---.7 ohms
" "--- Green-Black---.7 ohms

#2-
Orange, Yellow, Gray.
Ohms--Orange-Yellow---3.8 ohms
" " --Grey- orange---2.2 ohms
" "--- Grey-Yellow-=--2.2 ohms
 

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laatsch55

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#2
Re: Some Toroid Transfoprmer Questions!!!!

By the way they are Holden and Fischer. Supposed to be dual 120 primaries, 163 VCT, and 112 volt secondaries. Biut I'm measuring a lot more voltages than that.
 

Pure_Brew

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#3
Re: Some Toroid Transfoprmer Questions!!!!

I was just thinking about this as there was a time when I pulled my PS Audio 200c EI transformer to have it fully tested and vacuum/dipped. There was a place up here in Maine that does testing and even full rewinds. I got a nice printout on all the specifications.

I know you have a equipment but can you run the full tests too?

Cheers
 

mlucitt

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#4
Re: Some Toroid Transfoprmer Questions!!!!

Lee,
Here is what I do in this case. It looks like two bundles of wires coming out of each toroid. Bundle 1 looks like (black, red, green) and (yellow, orange, gray). Bundle 2 looks like (brown, black, white) and (purple, blue, white). I think one of the bundles is the primary and one of the bundles is the secondary, every toroid I have seen is made this way.

Based on the number of wires in each group (3) it seems you have center tapped (CT) windings. Of course, the primary CTs were probably connected to power ground and the secondary CTs were probably connected to the chassis to prevent shock in the case of an internal transformer short.

You might be able to assume that green and grey are the CTs on one side of the transformer and the white wires are the CT on the other side of the transformer. In any case you can run some resistance tests to confirm that the primary wires are not physically connected to the secondary wires. Then you can isolate the two windings in each side of the transformer because each CT coil is independent of the other (disconnect the bridge rectifier).

Once you have confirmed the three wires going to each CT winding, you can run voltage tests. This transformer has a close ratio of turns because the primary windings are each 120V and the outputs are 163V and 112V. Or more properly 81.5V + 81.5V and 56V + 56V on the two secondaries. Of course you want to find the lowest voltage because that will identify the smallest winding on the output side. If you connect the secondaries to 120V AC power you would get higher outputs because you are using the transformer as a step up instead of a step down.

Once you get the voltages identified by the proper CT windings you need to identify the phase. You can do that on the dual trace oscilloscope. Just make sure you have the "coupling" set to AC and the "trigger" set to the 'scope channel you are using for the primary AC winding, not the internal AC of the 'scope. Use a low voltage like 10V AC and check the waveform on the other primary. Then connect the primary in-phase windings together in parallel (120V and 120V) and look for the same phase on the secondaries and mark both of the in-phase outputs as the 'positive' outputs. You can then hook up 120V on the paralleled primaries and check the voltage on the outputs. You should have 81.5V - 0V - 81.5V and 56V - 0V - 56V.

Of course, you will want to eventually connect the outputs in series to give you the 163V and 112V to power up your bad ass amplifier. You could just terminate the 112V winding and have all the wattage go to the 163V winding. Because you have two toroids, that would give you +163V and -163V or close to +/- 200V after rectification and filtering. Geez, a 400V swing PS, watch out!
 

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#5
Re: Some Toroid Transfoprmer Questions!!!!

Ok Mark, that worked. Both primaries are now paralled. After rec and filtering it is +112, -112. Should be about 650 watts into 8 per channel. So swinging 224 should bring me under max for the 21196's right?
 

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#6
Re: Some Toroid Transfoprmer Questions!!!!

Pure_Brew said:
I was just thinking about this as there was a time when I pulled my PS Audio 200c EI transformer to have it fully tested and vacuum/dipped. There was a place up here in Maine that does testing and even full rewinds. I got a nice printout on all the specifications.

I know you have a equipment but can you run the full tests too?

Cheers
What tests Joe??
 

mlucitt

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#8
Re: Some Toroid Transfoprmer Questions!!!!

The MJ21196Gs have a higher Safe Operating Area than their brothers. Vceo (Collector-Emitter voltage) is 250V max, but the Vcbo and Vcex (Maximum value when the emitter is grounded of voltage between the collector and emitter when the typical bias of 1.5V is applied to the base) are both 400V max. You should go with the +163V and -163V rails and just see if you can keep the transistors cool enough.
 

laatsch55

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#10
Re: Some Toroid Transfoprmer Questions!!!!

How do you plan on getting +163 and -163??
 

laatsch55

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#11
Re: Some Toroid Transfoprmer Questions!!!!

After .rec and filter 163 turns into 228+/-
 

Pure_Brew

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#14
Re: Some Toroid Transfoprmer Questions!!!!

The tests were hi pot and all related voltages and resistances. I wanted to know if there was any issues with it, there were none. If you want to see the sheet I'll post it at some point.
 

laatsch55

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#15
Re: Some Toroid Transfoprmer Questions!!!!

OK Joe gotcha. After reading up on audio transformers, i'm kinda excited to use the Holden and Fischers. Supposed to be some of the best ever made for audio.
 

mlucitt

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#16
Re: Some Toroid Transfoprmer Questions!!!!

Wow 228V plus and minus. That means a swing of 456V. Pushing it, pushing it. I might try a "Turbo boost" switch on the front panel. You could be at Mach 8 with 156V rails and then you hit the "Turbo" switch and take the rails to 228 and Mach 10.
 

laatsch55

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#17
Re: Some Toroid Transfoprmer Questions!!!!

All I mwanted to do with these at the moment was to see if I could get over 600 per channel with the +112/-112 rail voltage. I think Joes board could do this without much component swap out. Really curious to see if an "Audio" Toroid really makes much difference.
 

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#19
Re: Some Toroid Transfoprmer Questions!!!!

Lee are the caps in series because you don't have caps that are rated for the output of the toroids?
 
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