Snell EII

[Pure_Brew]

Picked up a pair off of craigslist for $135.00 today. Cabinets are in really decent condition. Typical foam rot. 1 rear tweeter pushed in. Internal wire looks like it needs replacement.

I happened to have some practically brand new replacement woofers from snell, that sounded kinda crappy in the JIV's I bought them for.

I gave snell a call and they said I should have got a new inductor with them, which I never did. It was a bit crazy at the time of the order, plus it was through an aquantence there who was scrambling with the company closing.

Anyway I asked the engineer about using these drivers in the EIIs, he recommended other options but they wouldnt hurt to install. To make a shorter story of this, I did install them and they sound like they were made for these- amazing luck!

I'm amazed how good these sound regarding pretty much everything I can toss at them. I really should replace the wire but right now I'd rather just listen. Hopefully my wife will be happier with them as they aren't huge and now I'll be getting rid of all my other speakers.

 

[speakerman1]

Yea I have a guy who wants all of my Epos. So they may just leave. I don't think I ever listened to any Snells. Who knows I may have though. I'll have to do some research on them. I'm still wanting a pair of B&Ws though.

Larry

 

[Pure_Brew]

I've heard a lot of Snells, sold them at one point. But, these EII's are the first *Peter Snell* designed speakers I have owned or listened to. Based on what I'm listening to, I think I understand why old fans prefer Peters designs over the ones that came out after his unfortunate demise.

I used to sell B&W too, but never their very best. Nice products, well respected.

 

[stuwee]

I don't see much info online for them, what's the driver complement? A customer of mine had some older ones from the 80's, big suckers, about 5 foot tall, and the woofer was up high?? IIRC. sounded really nice with Mac gear, can you post a pic of them?

 

[Pure_Brew]

These are small floor-standers. Adding stands would raise them about 10". 1" Tweeter 8" Woofer 3/4" Rear Tweeter.

Here's a pic of mine, grill off:
[attachment=0:21ci1hev]Snell EII.JPG[/attachment:21ci1hev]

Also a link to some info, you'll see most except for the very last designs here. The EII pictured uses a different tweeter then mine, adopted in the EIII, likely built after Peter died in 1984.
http://www.snell.no/the_archives_type_E.htm
Here's the EIII, similar.
http://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspe ... index.html

Today, there is a speaker called the Audio Note AN/E (lots of variants) which is rooted from the Snell E. It's highly controversial, very expensive, doesn't measure well etc. This review is a good read though, at least it explains the relationship between the two.
http://www.stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/506an

 

[speakerman1]

Did you find the one about the different drivers. One being 4 Ohm and one being 8 ohm?

Larry

 

[Pure_Brew]

Not sure, over at PE? Both the JIV and these EII's had 4 ohm rated vifa woofers. I'm going to guess that these woofers likely measure somewhat different then the originals lol. It's not identical, it manufactured specifically for Snell. There are bound to be some variations, but that's why they voice them to the master and send replacement inductors. So electrically it can be a little different but the acoustic response is more important. They are still doing this service for customers. These JIV replacements sounded terrible in them ( likely needed voicing), but incredible in these EII's dropped in. I wonder if this driver was more critically rebuilt to E specs primarily ( which I believe was the most popular) and used with the other speakers with increased xover compensation. No idea but I like the result.

 

[speakerman1]

LOL Yes at PE. You do research don't you. LOL

Larry

 

[Pure_Brew]

I've tried too lol.

At some point, I'm going to have to replace the wire leads that go from the crossover to the drivers. At close inspection, I can see they are starting to turn. They used alot of wire, a pair of 16 gauge twisted pair at each +/- terminal, ( four conductors to each driver ). I'm actually a little scared to do it as I'm going to have to pull everything. The crossover board is screwed to the back of the cabinet, and has the binding posts sticking out the back side. If it's glued in place too, that'll be a big problem.

 

[speakerman1]

Depending on the glue. Sometimes you can use heat to break it loose. If that don't work if you can get part of it up with a putty knife and use contact cleaner with a straw or WD-40 will also break down glues. There is probably just a gasket.

Larry

 

[Pure_Brew]

Seeing that the wire gets soldered to the drivers, I might do some touch up on the cabinets when I yank everything out. One of the speakers had a 3 inch long piece of tape on the front baffle. Dried and old. I used alcohol to take it off, ended up rubbing the paint off and smearing the old glue. I was pissed. Guess I should have researched that...

I should tell you that part of my motivation in buying these is due to my curiosity about Audio Note. The basic kit will drop right into these cabs.

 

[speakerman1]

I did look at some E models today. I forget how much they were. I did do some speaker shopping today. Just looking though. Looked at some KEFs also.

Larry

 

[Pure_Brew]

I never got familiar with Kef but likely awesome. The old 104/2 is supposed to be sweet, amongst others.

Did you see the same E's that have been on EBay? Not everyones cup of tea but what is?

These sound really nice in my little room. I didn't expect to hear superior transparency from these things ( and they aren't ) but I did hope to enjoy listening to some relaxing, fatigue free music through them, which is what I'm getting at the moment. Funny thing is, this relaxed sound let's me relax, so I want to listen more. Which ironically let's me hear more. Just long enough to find something wrong with them...LOL.

 

[speakerman1]

LOL Your funny.

Larry

 

[laatsch55]

And infected.

 

[speakerman1]

Well I found a pair of Thiels also. Little spendy. Very heavy. I won't be lifting them if I buy them. Over 100 lbs each. LOL May see what a pair of Epiphany 12s will cost me. Since I know where some cabs are stored. LOL If and only if I sell my Epos. I am watching the E series also. Priced the dry rotted woofers. 178.00 each from Snell. The rear firing tweeter has me a little leery though.

Larry

 

[Pure_Brew]

You should be leery. It's very hard for me to suggest that you should buy them and toss money at them. If you had them, liked them and needed repair I'd say go for it. While I do like these, I can get the money back I have into them as mine in total cost less then the price of a pair of those replacements. But I'm spending out of my own pocket here.

The rear firing tweeter does not work invisibly. I had a pair of speakers behind these when I was doing a lot of listening and I liked the sound better before I put them away. Set up went from easy to challenging. I draped a towel over the top/back just to see the difference, which wasn't subtle.

When I sold B&W right next to Snell (1996+), no one liked both equally. Snell offered more dynamics, and some color. Subtract that and add some resolution=B&W. Dollar for dollar on the more modest models. We all know who the clear winner is, but that's also managing/marketing.

 

[Pure_Brew]

These tweeters seem to be working ok. However, they sound a little rough when I turn the volume up modestly. Close inspection reveals that they are leaking fluid, which seems to be filling the bottom of the tweeter surround. They also appear to have a coating on the diaphram that has dried up, looking a bit like a drying river bed (cracks).

Sorry no pics at the moment.

I've been listening to them for a few days and at pretty low volume but I think I should service or replace them. What do you think?

The front plate should be able to come off to get at the VC, but I'm not sure what would be safe to clean, if I have to replace the fluid, weather new VC/diaphragm is possible. I'm sure I can get new tweeters from Snell as they
are still operating the service department.

 

[stuwee]

Get some new tweeters, the damage you speak of is not worth trying to fix... send money... open mailbox... connect and enjoy

Looking at your pics in a previous link, my customer had a pair of early C's, could have been II or III's, they really sounded nice. he had some very expensive McIntosh gear running them. Toobed IIRC.

The kicker was when he came to my place to hear the slabs. His mouth hit floor, I had to slap him on the back to get his eyes to look forward again

You've had Maggie's you know what I mean. Anyhoo, Snell's are da bomb, a perfect example of a designer following his ears and specs be DAMNED!!!

 

[Pure_Brew]

Thanks for the reply mate. I wouldn't say Snell tossed specifications out the window, it was in fact an important part of the design philosophy, especially when you look at a designs like the "A". But I would say that there was a lot of listening going on, and at least in the beginning, a very personal approach to design. Once he died, that personal touch no longer existed.

Not that Snell didn't produce some really great speakers after. I've lived with some CIV's for awhile, first with SS, then tubes. On a technical, nice speaker, very revealing top to bottom. The mixture of two different views from "The Audio Critic" and the one from Stereophile are pretty much spot on. Probably the best speakers I've owned, certainly great for mixtape monitoring. If I'm not getting it "right" with the levels, or if another component is effecting the sound positively, or negatively-I'll know. But they fatigue.

With all the current flaws in these EII, somehow I can listen almost indefinitely. Worst issues are some bass bloat, a little blurring/hash in the midrange which is likely old tweeter and driver mismatching on some level. But even given that and the relative subtractiveness of the sound, I'm enjoying the sound too much to pass them over.

I think your probably right stuwee. Buy the new tweeters. However, my plan at this point is to replace ALL the drivers while they are still available, refresh the crossover a little and maybe even dress the cabinets.