Phase Linear and Pink Floyd

[marcok]

If I remember well , Emerson , Lake and Palmer used 17 PL 700Bs and many Klpisch La Scala .
Is it right ? I read this on an Italian hifi magazine in the '70s , but now I have not found evidence of this
in the web .
Ciao
Marco

 

[Northwinds]

Man, I would love to find one of those anodized blue faceplates for the 400. I also wish that image of the gold faceplate 700B was bigger! Purple 700B's bring 'em on!!!!

 

[premiumplus]

It's cool the way that PA systems have evolved over the years. As they developed, the guitar amps grew too. Pete Townsend went to JIm Marshall and had him build the first 4x12 guitar speaker cabs, and eventually the Marshall Major, a 200 watt guitar amp came out. All tube, the Major was a beast...and the PA systems continued to grow. Before they got clean and powerful, the guitar, bass, keyboard, etc. all relied on their own separate amps for concert levels, and the stage volume was intense to say the least. But today, the huge instrument amps are no more. The stacks of amps you see in the backline at concerts are for show. The real power comes from the PA system, and the soundman has complete control of the system (as a musician, that caused me a bunch of grief, because I lost control of the dynamics of my guitar or bass). The guitar's basic tone comes from a fairly small (typically) tube amp, usually 50 watts or less in output, maybe one 4x12 cabinet actually running. It's mic'd up and mixed out at the house board in the audience or at the back of the hall. Today you essentially have a recording studio onstage with everything mic'd up and mixed down. The drum kit alone has more microphones on it today than the whole band used to.
Done right, this gives us fantastic sound. I saw Steely Dan at the D.T.E. Music Theater in the Detroit area a few years ago, and it sounded like I was sitting on my couch at home. Amazing.
This is a great thread...keep the history coming!

 

[P.L.F.]

Keith Emerson Moog power - PL 700, what else?

If I remember well , Emerson , Lake and Palmer used 17 PL 700Bs and many Klpisch La Scala .
Is it right ? I read this on an Italian hifi magazine in the '70s , but now I have not found evidence of this in the web .
Ciao
Marco

I'll try to find this info. Meanwhile here is the story on Keith's keybords and amps used in early 70's. Again, PL 700 was the clear choice... See the link: http://www.brain-salad-surgery.de/keith_emersons_gear.html

 

[P.L.F.]

P.A. sound at very first Pink Floyd concerts

Posted by j.nelson:

I saw Pink Floyd on the "Dark side of the moon" tour. Somewhere in the 1970-1972 window. It was two way WEM in STEREO, no less. First stereo P.A. I ever heard. The console had an open reel tape recorder set into one end. I sat about 6' from Alan Parsons. About the same time I heard The Band with a two way Altec P.A. that had one multicell horn per side-so big it had to have been a 4 driver cell. The console was an Altec two. Must have had all of 12-16 channels. As I remember the sound for both of those was supurb for the time.

Replayed by Paul:

I started major touring in 1971 and I kinda remember what we had. Bottom end was RCA 7' folded horns. Large cabinet with 2 15" speakers. Probably JBL E140 series. The Mids were JBL 4560's with E130's. Horns were 2350's with 2440 drivers and 2445 horns with 1" drivers (can't recall a model).

Everything was powered by Crown DC300's and the Phase Linear 700's (heavely modified as I recall so they would not fall apart.)

Mixing was a Yammi PM1000 (I think). 16 channels. Monitors started as Shure Vocal Masher 1/2 stacks. With the Vocal Master Amps driving them. I remember a bunch of "Y" cord adapters for our first monitor split. I can't remember how many channels but the Vocal Masters were only 6 or 8 channels.

We usually miked up everything we had channels for, vocals, usually three mikes for drums, and anything else we could.

As I recall the normal mike for everything was the EV 664. After you used it as a hammer to nail down the drum kit you then miked the set with it.

[...]

source: http://www.livesoundint.com/lab/lab/messages/archive4/13890.html

 

[P.L.F.]

M.A.V.I.S. and PL 700

If I remember well , Emerson , Lake and Palmer used 17 PL 700Bs

Not much progress in finding the info on internet so far.

Apparently both ELP and The Who most of the time were using the same P.A. system provider - I.E.S. It stood for 'International Entertainers Services Ltd.’ (source: http://www.brain-salad-surgery.de/ies_sound_system.html). That company contracted Bob Heil (the Heil Sound). One of key system component were most powerful at the time P.A. system and the MAVIS line of products (which stood for Music Augmentation Voice & Instrument System). It was a major leep forward in the sound business. However the P.A. setup was based on both Crown DC 300’s and Phase Linear 700’s with the mix towards Crown's changing over time.

A few words on MAVIS by Kurt Schrotenboer:

I own a M.A.V.I.S audio desk. I have used the desk for my recordings and used it for many bands I was in. It still all works. I was an employee of a sound company that purchased a P.A.S. from Bob Heil. Bob can verify that this is one of the two desks he sold to London City Ent. LTD. (See pictures of the system and the audio desks and the factory brochure for the last MAVIS quad consoles that were used for the first California Jam.) There are no origination documents; however, I was informed that they were made in England. These desks were built with the finest craftsmanship with engraved lettering, anodized aluminum pullout channels and master tracks, Penny Giles faders, built in tri-amp crossovers and weighs 285 lbs in the flight case with power supply.

We didn’t put all of the speakers in the main system picture since some drivers were being reconed at the JBL factory and some 4560s were being outfitted with new model 2225s for more power-handling ability. There were over 24 4560s. On the bottom of the system picture were four Olsen tri-folds with JBL 2205s. We called them “refrigerator cabs.†They had huge casters on the back side and so they were nice to pile a bunch of equipment on top and roll them in the the non-union auditoriums. We did repaint the 4560s, which were very beat up and wanted them to go along with the Heil scheme of white horn bells. On the top were JBL bullits, eight to a box. You can see the top hat JBL long throws on the sides of the picture. The two wedge monitors sit in front and the middle shows two drum monitors with Heil white cone speakers. The side fills are there too with two 2205s and horn for each. Even though Heil had introduced his designed horn bells, they were loaded with JBL drivers. The entire system was loaded with JBL speakers except for the two drum monitors. In addition to the Crown DC-300s in front there were two Phase Linear 700s, which powered the Tri-folds and a Crown DC-150 for the bullits. The speaker cables all had twist-lock 220-volt plugs … a bit beefy for speaker power but they never failed. The two main snakes were 250 foot and 225 foot. The shorter one was used for stage front and longer one for drums stage back. There also was two 50-foot mic-splitter snakes, which went to the side foldback (monitor) Heil (semi-Mavis duplicate) desks.

source: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022348416

 

[premiumplus]

Quote: The speaker cables all had twist-lock 220-volt plugs … a bit beefy for speaker power but they never failed.

They used twist lock 220 volt plugs for SPEAKER PLUGS? That's insane. Didn't they know that someday, somewhere, somebody...would plug a speaker into a 220 volt supply? Really shortens the life of a good driver!

 

[Gepetto]

Quote: The speaker cables all had twist-lock 220-volt plugs … a bit beefy for speaker power but they never failed.

They used twist lock 220 volt plugs for SPEAKER PLUGS? That's insane. Didn't they know that someday, somewhere, somebody...would plug a speaker into a 220 volt supply? Really shortens the life of a good driver!

Unless they can take it

 

[laatsch55]

Got my attention now!!

 

[P.L.F.]

Prog Rock Spring

Very cool read:
http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/..._cast_comedy_for_fools_the_birth_of_prog.html

 

[Skynyrd77]

Here's a cool read about Skynyrd .
http://edking.proboards.com/thread/17/equipment

 

[marcok]

P.L.F.
thank for your effort for trying to answer my question.
Probably that arrangment was used in Milan in 1973 , but obviousy I'm not sure of this .
Or after 41 years my memory ...
Ciao
Marco

 

[P.L.F.]

P.L.F.
thank for your effort for trying to answer my question.
Probably that arrangment was used in Milan in 1973 , but obviousy I'm not sure of this .
Or after 41 years my memory ...
Ciao
Marco

Ciao Marco,

I'm getting closer... :

ELP returned to the road in March of 1973, touring Europe for three months and started recording songs for their next studio album, which would be called "Brain Salad Surgery". The LP was released in both the US and England in November 1973 and went on to reach #2 on the charts in England and #11 in the US. ELP toured the US from December 1973 to February 1974 to promote the album. By this time, the band's stage act had grown to immense size. They traveled with 25 roadies and 35 tons of equipment, including a revolving drum kit, Quadrophonic sound, 32 sound cabinets, a grand piano that rose 30 feet into the air and flipped end over end, and a special lighting system. ELP returned to the US to play additional shows through March and April.

surce: http://www.classicbands.com/elp.html

TBC...

 

[Northwinds]

and eventually the Marshall Major, a 200 watt guitar amp came out. All tube, the Major was a beast...

Yep, until a few years ago, I was running a Major. I used Genelex Gold Lion KT88s in it. No master volume, just turn the knob and instant earthquake

 

[Northwinds]

My guitars are a Gibson J200 with Guild strings, which I played on "The Old Castle," a Fender Jazz Bass, a Rickenbacker bass with Fender pick-ups and Les Paul electric, all these fitted with Rotosound wirewound strings. My amp is a Phase Linear of about 1,000 watts, 500 each stereo side, and I use a crossover system with Martin bass bins, Altec midrange horns and JB Lansing high-frequency dividers. I began a year's tuition on guitar when I was 12, but am self-taught on bass, which I started to play when I joined King Crimson. I played bass and sang on their first album, "In The Court of the Crimson King," and sang on their second LP, "In The Wake of Poseidon." We are shortly doing a song book containing our most-requested numbers, including "The Old Castle." We shall be playing at the MM Poll Winners concert at Kennington Oval on September 30. ~ GREG LAKE

 

[P.L.F.]

Travels With Yes, March 1979

An essay concerned with the technical achievements of a Yes show should be prefaced by a few brief observations on the band itself and its history.

When at last in 1968 Jon Anderson met Chris Squire in a Soho drinking club, it seemed unlikely that the pair would father a genre of such singularity that it should qualify as suigeneris. Anderson, performing on the road since 1956, had whiled away a singing career in a regionally popular group known as the Warriors. Chris Squire, a bassist of urbane dispositions, had heretofore briefly been a part of the Syn. At the time, Anderson was 24 and Squire four years his junior, which meant, as far as musicians go, that both should have already begun their ascent. Now, more than ten years later, we look apon a vocalist at 35 and marvel at a voice of matchless dimension which fails to succumb to mounting years of strain, and a bass guitarist who transcends the normal limits of that mode of instrumental expression.

It is interesting to note that in 1969 when Yes released its first album that "techno-rock" was being born. Perhaps only Keith Emerson's keyboard compositions two years earlier as part of the Nice were the movements only predecessor synchronal with the advances of Pink Floyd experiments. As the Beatles were bringing their act to a close, popular music steeped in classical traditions was on the upswing.

The Yes debut album received much more attention than did the fledgling project by Genesis in that same year, but both were overshadowed by the epic Court of the Crimson King by King Crimson. Yes seemed to choose to play it safe by covering material by the Beatles, Byrds, Richie Havens and Stephen Stills on their first two LPs while others took added chances on popularizing their lyrical significance.

Instrumentally, Yes did not mature until as late as 1971 when guitarist Steve Howe replaced Peter Banks and Rick Wakeman arrived and soon after invented a new style of playing electronic keyboards. Wakemanm whose credits were as diverse as the Strawbs, Cat Stevens, T.Rex and David Bowie, attracted the critical acclaim that previously eluded the band. The Fragile Album featuring the theme song "Roundabout" generated sellouts for the first Yes tour.

[…]

The design, staging and staffing of a Yes show is a fine science which has been nearly perfected by Clair Brothers Audio, Inc. during an association spanning over eight years. Clair Brothers has handled audio matters for Yes since its first tour and Roy Clair still travels on the road in his supervisory capacity. G. Michael Roth has spent eight of his nine years with Clair Brothers in the capacity of engineering stage sound for Yes.

[…]

Thirty-two Phase Linear 7OOs grouped in stacks of four are bolted behind the stack they service.

[…]

The speakers are constructed in eight small sections, each [section] powered by four Phase Linear 700s. Included in each stack are two large "W" boxes which house two l8Anch speakers each. On each side of these are two "Roy" (Clair) boxes which hold two 12-inch speakers. Above these units are four JBL horn boxes utilizing the 2482 2-inch driver, the 2440 60-watt driver and the 2405 ultra-hi driver. All speakers are made by JBL.

[…]

source: Modern Recording Magazine -> http://zenponies.com/yitp/1979/mar/mar_79.html

 

[P.L.F.]

PL Amps to power weekend parties in early 70's

Wanna be invited to W.E. Party? Gotta have PL Amp and K-Horns...! At least in 1973 ...

read here: http://www.richzimmermann.com/Blog/Page-7.html

 

[P.L.F.]

Pink Floyd sound in 70's

by Alan Parsons
originally published in Studio Sound magazine (now defunct), June 1975


Pink Floyd were among the earliest innovators to use four channel sound, and more recently Dark Side of the Moon won many awards, including several for engineering, on its way to being one of the best-know albums of all time. The author, who engineered these and many other sessions for the band, discusses the quadraphonic record production, and contrasts it with the presentation of multichannel sound on stage. […]

Although Dark Side of the Moon was monitored in studios equipped for stereo reproduction, many sections were recorded with regard to the eventual quadraphonic reduction, even though this took more track space than would have been necessary for stereo. For example, the clock sounds for Time were built in an imaginary quad picture on to four tracks of the 16 track master. The sounds heard on the introduction to Money were also distributed across four tracks to enable the spatial shifts of the quad reduction. This involved transfer from an edited tape loop on a four track machine to the 16 track for subsequent overdubs so that each sound issued from a different speaker. […]

Us and Them is probably the most involved piece of quad technique on the album. On the stereo version a vocal line is repeated by means of a very long tape echo which moves from the left towards the right on each successive repeat. In order to achieve an interesting effect in quad, each repeat was returned to a different channel which entailed using a different tape system for each repeat rather than recycling one signal back through the same system, as one would for a normal tape echo or digital loop. In order to do this a hookup had to be arranged, with an eight track machine as in fig. on the delay circuit […]

The main stereo pa is extremely large and powerful (approve 8 kW). To set up an equally powerful system at the rear corners of a concert hall would be a mammoth task, and very impractical. Even with the layout shown, road crews have a hard time humping huge cabinets to the sides and back of the hall, especially when the auditorium is on several levels. This involves speaker stacks on every level together with their associated cables, which have to be kept out of the way of the audience.

It has been found very effective to have the quad output stacks (of Phase Linear 700 Amps… - added by P.L.F.) on a level somewhat above that of the stage, especially since the system is used frequently to simulate movement. This applies more especially to the stack behind the stage, of course, which in most cases would be drowned by the more powerful independent stereo stage pa. The stage quad stack also serves as an aural cue to the band, who might otherwise find it difficult to hear the other quad channels, which could literally be hundreds of feet away from the stage. […]


source: http://www.stereosociety.com/FourSides.shtml

 

[P.L.F.]

Could you please turn down the monitor?

By 1977, Superior Sound, operated by Brock Jabara and his partner Jim Pearce, had already logged eight years in the concert sound business. Banks of their cavernous black boxes flanked the stages of concert halls and arenas all over the country, providing sound for Aretha Franklin, The Bee Gees, Asleep at the Wheel, Janis Joplin, Sly and the Family Stone, Jean Luc Ponty, James Brown, and countless others. When Superior Sound outfitted a show, they supplied the equipment and the personnel. If something wasn't right, Brock and Jim heard about it then and there, they were the ones manning the board.

Superior Sound was on the road with Mike Finnigan, a noted side man (Jimi Hendrix, Crosby, Stills and Nash) who was launching a solo career. Being from the same city (Wichita), Brock and Jim and Mike went way back. But that didn't stop Finnigan from complaining on stage anytime something in the mix failed to meet his standards. Sometimes in mid song he'd stop just to gripe, "I can't hear the monitors!" Brock and Jim were like survivors of a shipwreck, stranded on their mixing console island in a sea of rowdy concert goers with the main attraction berating them from the stage. "I can't hear myself! Turn up the (bleeping) monitors!" Even with 100 watts of power being pumped into each of the two massive floor wedges positioned next to Finnigan's keyboard, every night was the same, "Turn up the monitors!" The boos and catcalls began to have a decidedly negative effect on the crew's morale.

The challenge was to produce a monitor that could be heard above any din. During a mid-tour break, Brock directed speaker builder Larry Schneider, at Superior Sound's Wichita shop, to cram 5-inch drivers four abreast in an enclosure that could fit atop a keyboard or microphone (mic) stand.

Back with the tour it was business as usual except for a single change in the on-stage monitor array. Two channel, 350 watts each, of a Phase Linear 700, was allotted to the skinny plywood cabinet that rested about three feet from Finnigan's face. The house lights dimmed. Midway through the first set the point at which Finnigan would customarily begin his nightly tirade about the inadequacies of the sound system, he paused to ask, "Could you please turn down the monitor?"

Source: http://www.galaxyaudio.com/about.php

 

[laatsch55]

Love the stories PLF , keerp em comin...