Outboard processors: What order to put them in?

[premiumplus]

Hi guys,
A lot of you already know this subject well, and it's something that I've been studying for years, and I can't ever get enough knowledge. I am reading the owner's manual for the dbx 400X program route selector and it's got some very good information about the proper order in which to connect your audio gear when setting up your system.
It should be REQUIRED READING MATERIAL for anyone that wants to squeeze the very best sound out of their components.
Why?
Well, I'm a total geek when it comes to my system. I want to have as much control as the engineer did when the music was first recorded...and that means that things can get complicated. Right now I am doing a mix and matching of the following components in my main system:

Preamp: SAE 2100L
Amplifiers: A pair of WOPL 1000s
Active Crossover: Dahlquist DQ-LP1
Speakers: Dahlquist DQ-10s with a pair of Dahlquist DQ-1W subs
Sources: Oppo BDP-105 blu-ray/cd player, dbx dx5 cd player (not here yet), Pioneer PL-71 (Shure M-97xE or Audio Technica 12S), Pioneer TX-7500, Teac 1230 R to R, Teac R-888X cassette
Equalizer: SAE 2800 parametric
Noise Reduction / Expansion: Phase Linear 1000 Autocorrelator, dbx 3bx-ds, SAE 5000 Impulse Noise Reduction
Other: dbx 120 subharmonic synthesizer (not here yet, bought as a toy, an old friend had one back in the 80s and raved about it; we'll see ).

And to hook 'em all together, yesterday I bought a dbx 400X program-route selector. Got a smokin' great deal on it for $23. Shipping was almost as much... It goes in one of the preamp's tape monitor loops, and provides hookup for up to 3 processors, 1 noise reduction processor, and 3 tape decks. It allows for dubbing between decks, too.
As you can see, there is going to be a ton of cabling, and the selector box seemed like the way to go to relieve the congestion.
One thing the dbx unit provides which is really useful is the ability to put the tape decks before or after any of the processors, so you can encode them with outboard dbx or dolby units, or if the source material really sucks, you can equalize the signal before recording it. It provides amazing flexibility. I don't know how I ever survived without it, and it's not even here yet!

Anyway, I wanted to share this with ya'all. It not only has good suggestions, but it tells you WHY it sounds best. 13 pages of good stuff. Unleash the inner geek that lives inside you!!! Enjoy.

View attachment dbx 400 Owners Manual_original.pdf

 

[laatsch55]

Dave, I had the 15th attenuator on my Spec in the on position for 25 years.Flipped it to flat the other day and now all my music is new to me again. The sources have come so far from back in the day I hardly use any processing anymore. And the amount of program material below 15 he is amazing. Most everyone will say my speaks don't go that low.....tell that to the shot falling of the walls and the nails backing out of the floor joists....

 

[premiumplus]

Dave, I had the 15th attenuator on my Spec in the on position for 25 years.Flipped it to flat the other day and now all my music is new to me again. The sources have come so far from back in the day I hardly use any processing anymore. And the amount of program material below 15 he is amazing. Most everyone will say my speaks don't go that low.....tell that to the shot falling of the walls and the nails backing out of the floor joists....

Yes, it's really cool how far we've come. I've found over the years that "less is more" but the ability to make SMALL adjustments to the sound is priceless. For instance, my eq right now is set for a +3db boost commencing at 2500Hz, and flat everywhere else.
There are situations, though, that call for sonic repair, and I love having the power to do that.
I just got the dbx 120 off the UPS truck and hooked it up. It's a fun toy, but my first impression is that it belongs in a disco. It's real hard to keep it from sounding...well...processed. It wants to boom, and I HATE boomy sounding bass.
That's the key, being able to keep the lid on processors / eq, etc. If you can hear them working, they aren't doing the job. And it's one of the things that the new dbx switch box I talk about above is going to be very handy for, using only the components I want, and having the ability to switch everything else off.
There are times, lately especially, that the Oppo, a great SACD, and my beloved WOPL 1000s/DQ-10 is all that I need to be in audio nirvana!

 

[orange]

Hi guys,
A lot of you already know this subject well, and it's something that I've been studying for years, and I can't ever get enough knowledge. I am reading the owner's manual for the dbx 400X program route selector and it's got some very good information about the proper order in which to connect your audio gear when setting up your system.
It should be REQUIRED READING MATERIAL for anyone that wants to squeeze the very best sound out of their components.
Why?
Well, I'm a total geek when it comes to my system. I want to have as much control as the engineer did when the music was first recorded...and that means that things can get complicated. Right now I am doing a mix and matching of the following components in my main system:

Preamp: SAE 2100L
Amplifiers: A pair of WOPL 1000s
Active Crossover: Dahlquist DQ-LP1
Speakers: Dahlquist DQ-10s with a pair of Dahlquist DQ-1W subs
Sources: Oppo BDP-105 blu-ray/cd player, dbx dx5 cd player (not here yet), Pioneer PL-71 (Shure M-97xE or Audio Technica 12S), Pioneer TX-7500, Teac 1230 R to R, Teac R-888X cassette
Equalizer: SAE 2800 parametric
Noise Reduction / Expansion: Phase Linear 1000 Autocorrelator, dbx 3bx-ds, SAE 5000 Impulse Noise Reduction
Other: dbx 120 subharmonic synthesizer (not here yet, bought as a toy, an old friend had one back in the 80s and raved about it; we'll see ).

And to hook 'em all together, yesterday I bought a dbx 400X program-route selector. Got a smokin' great deal on it for $23. Shipping was almost as much... It goes in one of the preamp's tape monitor loops, and provides hookup for up to 3 processors, 1 noise reduction processor, and 3 tape decks. It allows for dubbing between decks, too.
As you can see, there is going to be a ton of cabling, and the selector box seemed like the way to go to relieve the congestion.
One thing the dbx unit provides which is really useful is the ability to put the tape decks before or after any of the processors, so you can encode them with outboard dbx or dolby units, or if the source material really sucks, you can equalize the signal before recording it. It provides amazing flexibility. I don't know how I ever survived without it, and it's not even here yet!

Anyway, I wanted to share this with ya'all. It not only has good suggestions, but it tells you WHY it sounds best. 13 pages of good stuff. Unleash the inner geek that lives inside you!!! Enjoy.

View attachment 14561

HMMM...that's a predicament.

What you need to do is leave the NR hookup for NR...the rest are really processors and so put the 5000 in the phono section of the preamp as it's not going to be used for much else. The 1000 needs to go in the loop of the pre as well.

I'm not sure you want to use 3bx and 1000 simultaneously, you'll end up with the overprocessed mess you just professed to dislike. Put the 3bx on the 400.

The 120 should be last in the chain before the amp so you don't introduce any problems prior.

 

[Elite-ist]

Dave: I didn't think you would go wrong in choosing the dbx 400X. It can get pretty busy back there:

Nando.

 

[premiumplus]

Dave: I didn't think you would go wrong in choosing the dbx 400X. It can get pretty busy back there:

Nando.

Amen, brother...not to mention the fact that repeatedly plugging in and out the RCAs stress the solder connections at the component's circuit board. BTW, I like your choice of aperture setting for the photo. Having the background fade out of focus is most effective. Your photos always bring a smile to my face, keep up the great work!

 

[Elite-ist]

Dave: Thanks, I didn't have the dbx 400 OM until you just provided the PDF. I connected everything up without it. I like sound processors and I have enough experience, now, to know how to utilize them. It seems a little antiquated of a sound processing method considering a lot of the music can be digitally altered/enhanced via an abundance of pro computer programs. I am just not ready to go that route, yet.

You can expect more pictures of good old stuff and thanks for the compliment.

Nando.

 

[premiumplus]

dbx 400 arrived..

I got the dbx 400 that I talk about in this thread a couple of days ago. Here are my first thoughts:
First, I was concerned about the switches being dirty or intermittent (It turned out to not be a problem at all, they are quiet and perfectly functional). Anyway, I pulled it apart (kicking myself for not taking pictures...sorry, guys). What I found was way more than I expected. Two pcb that are the size of the enclosure, stacked. Very nicely laid out, and much more complex than I had envisioned, looking at the schematic. The intention was to de-oxit and lube all the push button switches but this little box is PACKED and does not lend itself to easy disassembly. Plus the switches are sandwiched between the two boards so they aren't easily accessible without a pretty thorough teardown. The good news is that they seem to be better quality switches than I've encountered in my other dbx equipment. At least, this particular unit didn't have any noisy switches and is fully functional. The combinations that are available with this unit are amazing. It's a very well thought out piece of gear, and nicely engineered. I really love the dbx stuff prior to the Harmon buyout. Very nice.
So I have it all hooked up now and it is flawless so far. It makes it much easier to control a complex system...and I am going to have fun trying out the duplicating ability of this unit, going from reel to reel over to cassette. There's a learning curve here, but the manual (attached above) is very nicely written. And that's not so easy to do...I went back to school when I was 40 to get my EE degree, and one of my classes was technical writing. One of my projects was to write an instruction manual for a VCR. My hat's off to the guys that did that at dbx back in the day...