Johnny D's 700 Adventure
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Re: Phase Linear 400
Joe/Lee the Phase Linear static saga has ended......
The voltages at the latching circuit is correct, reinstalled the old board and they were the same.
Also performed a load sharing test and took all the currents down and one transistor was at 9mv while all the others were in the area of 38 and 40mv across the emitters. Wasn't the transistor though...after I drained caps did a continuity test on the rails and the connections to the transistors and found a cold solder joint on one of the transistors. I was able to pull rail awat from base connection. Got out big weller gun and resoldered it and tested again and read 39mv..
There was also hash on the diodes on back plane, found when tested on ocillascope....got jumpers all over the amp so have to reinstall your board now. Let you known how it turns out.
Joe/Lee the Phase Linear static saga has ended......
The voltages at the latching circuit is correct, reinstalled the old board and they were the same.
Also performed a load sharing test and took all the currents down and one transistor was at 9mv while all the others were in the area of 38 and 40mv across the emitters. Wasn't the transistor though...after I drained caps did a continuity test on the rails and the connections to the transistors and found a cold solder joint on one of the transistors. I was able to pull rail awat from base connection. Got out big weller gun and resoldered it and tested again and read 39mv..
There was also hash on the diodes on back plane, found when tested on ocillascope....got jumpers all over the amp so have to reinstall your board now. Let you known how it turns out.
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Re: Phase Linear 400
Your rite, should of looked for this from the begining, download a cool ocillascope for my pc, was able to see all the dirt on the dc rails while I was doing current sharing test...
Well at least I know the old board works...gotta reinstall Joes now.
One thing I figured out to, cut the meter feeds off the output rails and going to install them at the output posts on dc protect so they don't slam when the dc rushs the rails..
Lee/Joe thats for all your help and keeping your faith in me....and from me gutting this thing.
Let you know when finished...Thanks Again
Your rite, should of looked for this from the begining, download a cool ocillascope for my pc, was able to see all the dirt on the dc rails while I was doing current sharing test...
Well at least I know the old board works...gotta reinstall Joes now.
One thing I figured out to, cut the meter feeds off the output rails and going to install them at the output posts on dc protect so they don't slam when the dc rushs the rails..
Lee/Joe thats for all your help and keeping your faith in me....and from me gutting this thing.
Let you know when finished...Thanks Again
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Re: Phase Linear 400
Lee
Yes they are, but like to get little more high end...have planar tweeters and they really sing.
Would a different output transistor have a higher range...I know there are different transistors can be used in this amp, you had mentioned earier about better sounding transistors and drivers...enlighten my curiosity.....
Lee
Yes they are, but like to get little more high end...have planar tweeters and they really sing.
Would a different output transistor have a higher range...I know there are different transistors can be used in this amp, you had mentioned earier about better sounding transistors and drivers...enlighten my curiosity.....
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Re: Phase Linear 400
The modern replacements have better current specs and here in a couple weeks we'll know if the response is better. I have tested a 700B stock with all the tests the AP is capable of . It will get retested after the total White Oak workover, then we can say with certainty if that is so.
Most response improvements come on Joe's board. I have seen predicted results from his Spice modeling and there is a definate difference. Now we can quantify that.
The modern replacements have better current specs and here in a couple weeks we'll know if the response is better. I have tested a 700B stock with all the tests the AP is capable of . It will get retested after the total White Oak workover, then we can say with certainty if that is so.
Most response improvements come on Joe's board. I have seen predicted results from his Spice modeling and there is a definate difference. Now we can quantify that.
Re: Phase Linear 400
Glad you are all set John. As Lee says, it is always the small stuff. A while back, I chased an elusive crushed RCA jack insulator on one of my PL400s for a few days too. Previous owner had substituted a non flanged fibre washer and it was intermittently shorting to the chassis and messing up the ground system inside the amp. It feels good when you find them but they sure are frustrating when you are in the midst of it (as you found out
. The Phase amps have plenty of high frequency response so you must have eagle ears if you are missing it. Too me they always suffered on the low end until we made some much needed mods to straighten that out.
Glad you are all set John. As Lee says, it is always the small stuff. A while back, I chased an elusive crushed RCA jack insulator on one of my PL400s for a few days too. Previous owner had substituted a non flanged fibre washer and it was intermittently shorting to the chassis and messing up the ground system inside the amp. It feels good when you find them but they sure are frustrating when you are in the midst of it (as you found out
. The Phase amps have plenty of high frequency response so you must have eagle ears if you are missing it. Too me they always suffered on the low end until we made some much needed mods to straighten that out.
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Re: Phase Linear 400
Joe your close, unfortunatly my hearing is what gets me in trouble. conventional speakers can't do it for me, dont have the range. My speakers are planars and ribbons. I have one rack of superbly recorded music and one rack thats not so great but the music is good. Want to hear a good cd Natalie Cole has a wonderful engineer and some Harry Connick Jr.. There are much more but my great is Brothers In Arms, dire straights. My tube amps actually has a range of 8hz to 50,000hz, Bogen MO200a, they are monsters and the greatest is you can cathode parallel them together. same as bridging. I parallel 2 for each channel for 400watts of tube power. Great in the winter too.. But anyway ribbons and planars create a huge soundstage and ranges are over 25khz...
I noticed the bottom end is tight and acurate with the PL...Would love to try the PL on my Maggies MG3s, but afraid they'll take out a transistor...or my speakers..
Joe your close, unfortunatly my hearing is what gets me in trouble. conventional speakers can't do it for me, dont have the range. My speakers are planars and ribbons. I have one rack of superbly recorded music and one rack thats not so great but the music is good. Want to hear a good cd Natalie Cole has a wonderful engineer and some Harry Connick Jr.. There are much more but my great is Brothers In Arms, dire straights. My tube amps actually has a range of 8hz to 50,000hz, Bogen MO200a, they are monsters and the greatest is you can cathode parallel them together. same as bridging. I parallel 2 for each channel for 400watts of tube power. Great in the winter too.. But anyway ribbons and planars create a huge soundstage and ranges are over 25khz...
I noticed the bottom end is tight and acurate with the PL...Would love to try the PL on my Maggies MG3s, but afraid they'll take out a transistor...or my speakers..
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Re: Phase Linear 400
I get interested when I see specs. I found them here.
http://www.montagar.com/~patj/bogenspecs.htm Do you play at 1 watt often? If I am reading this right. You loose bottom end as power increases. And distortion is not great. I know I know numbers aren't every thing. You threw them out there. What tubes are you running? I start to wonder when I see certain nomenclature. The only thing I have to compare them to are the Carys. I tried to understand the graphs. It is either to early in the morning or I'm dumb. Could be both. http://www.stereophile.com/tubepoweramp ... index.html
Not putting your gear down ; but you are comparing apples to oranges. SS to tubes. There isn't a way to compare them. I don't know you well so take this with a grain of salt.
Larry
I get interested when I see specs. I found them here.
http://www.montagar.com/~patj/bogenspecs.htm Do you play at 1 watt often? If I am reading this right. You loose bottom end as power increases. And distortion is not great. I know I know numbers aren't every thing. You threw them out there. What tubes are you running? I start to wonder when I see certain nomenclature. The only thing I have to compare them to are the Carys. I tried to understand the graphs. It is either to early in the morning or I'm dumb. Could be both. http://www.stereophile.com/tubepoweramp ... index.html
Not putting your gear down ; but you are comparing apples to oranges. SS to tubes. There isn't a way to compare them. I don't know you well so take this with a grain of salt.
Larry
Hi Larry
Yes sometimes have to listen very low especially when coming home from working nights and everyone is still sleeping...not comparing tubes to transistors, just like the output design with tubes for the output transformer, basically dc isolation. I really cant judge tubes and transistors specially for someone else. Everyone has different ways of hearing, there ears are pitched at different angles and gives them the ability to hear things differently than others.
Try this next time you are listening, sit in chair don't move your head, using two fingers change the angle of your ears and you can see how people sometimes don't hear the same as you. People judge equiptment and speakers on what they here but other people oppose those opinions because they arent hearing what the author is hearing. Room acoustics has a huge effect on sound. I like my room well dampened, dead to a clap. No echos or reverb, makes everything more pronounced. From my point of view. Tubes and transistors is like politics, Ive heard some really bad tubes and some really great tubes the same for transistors, I own both types.
The tubes I love are the EL34s I think they are very musical, the tubes I am running are 8417s, very nice tube too. There are ways to compare tubes and SS technically but as I said its personal prefrence and what the buyer hears, same as judging speakers. Numbers are irrelivant to sound, numbers could resemble the great range but the sound could be horrible.
For instance I have a SS amp from the early 80s made by a tiny company called ADA Audio Design Associates. This amp is like a personal size pizza, looks like a plain box, but when you play it, its delicious...really.
One thing I suggest dont believe everything you read, well designed amps do not lose bass response the greater the gain, that where a well designed power supply comes in..
Not worried about you putting my amps down, everything works in corallation, sounds of systems really reviewed on room size and acoustics, speakers, equiptment, etc...I know if you sat in my room and heard you be astonished, but not really cause your hearing could be different than mine.
I know one thing you would like, when I have my infinity's playing, you get a massage on the couch as you listen....LOL BTW love cary's, which do you have?
Yes sometimes have to listen very low especially when coming home from working nights and everyone is still sleeping...not comparing tubes to transistors, just like the output design with tubes for the output transformer, basically dc isolation. I really cant judge tubes and transistors specially for someone else. Everyone has different ways of hearing, there ears are pitched at different angles and gives them the ability to hear things differently than others.
Try this next time you are listening, sit in chair don't move your head, using two fingers change the angle of your ears and you can see how people sometimes don't hear the same as you. People judge equiptment and speakers on what they here but other people oppose those opinions because they arent hearing what the author is hearing. Room acoustics has a huge effect on sound. I like my room well dampened, dead to a clap. No echos or reverb, makes everything more pronounced. From my point of view. Tubes and transistors is like politics, Ive heard some really bad tubes and some really great tubes the same for transistors, I own both types.
The tubes I love are the EL34s I think they are very musical, the tubes I am running are 8417s, very nice tube too. There are ways to compare tubes and SS technically but as I said its personal prefrence and what the buyer hears, same as judging speakers. Numbers are irrelivant to sound, numbers could resemble the great range but the sound could be horrible.
For instance I have a SS amp from the early 80s made by a tiny company called ADA Audio Design Associates. This amp is like a personal size pizza, looks like a plain box, but when you play it, its delicious...really.
One thing I suggest dont believe everything you read, well designed amps do not lose bass response the greater the gain, that where a well designed power supply comes in..
Not worried about you putting my amps down, everything works in corallation, sounds of systems really reviewed on room size and acoustics, speakers, equiptment, etc...I know if you sat in my room and heard you be astonished, but not really cause your hearing could be different than mine.
I know one thing you would like, when I have my infinity's playing, you get a massage on the couch as you listen....LOL BTW love cary's, which do you have?
I forgot to mention I parallel my bogens for current and wattage to power my infinity's, thats 400w a channel and total of 32 - 8417s with plates running at 550 - 600v, thats alot of heat.
I think people who enjoy good music and take pride in their equiptment should learn about how everything works. I personally will not go out and buy a tube amp from a manufacturer....I being schooled in electronics and engineering at a very young age had a huge intrest in music...loved it alot leading me to the equiptment and speaker end of it, later to find the perfect sound for me. Ive become very educated in the many decades of my intrests. So I love building my own amps, mostly tubes and I can put the best of everything in and still save me thousands of dollars from buying new.
If people really knew the cost value of building as buying new manufactured we be back to a county that manufactures...instead of finding rice from someones lunch that made your amp..
I think people who enjoy good music and take pride in their equiptment should learn about how everything works. I personally will not go out and buy a tube amp from a manufacturer....I being schooled in electronics and engineering at a very young age had a huge intrest in music...loved it alot leading me to the equiptment and speaker end of it, later to find the perfect sound for me. Ive become very educated in the many decades of my intrests. So I love building my own amps, mostly tubes and I can put the best of everything in and still save me thousands of dollars from buying new.
If people really knew the cost value of building as buying new manufactured we be back to a county that manufactures...instead of finding rice from someones lunch that made your amp..
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Joe
Problem with these things is they are 6' by 2.5' wide planars, its all wire and magnets so the current these things draw is more than my infinities, I'm still looking for the paper i read about not using the 700b on these speakers because of the load...something to do with the impedance change through the frequency range...almost like the Infinity Q's...but more current demanding. Use a crown PSA2 or my Mo's paralleled to drive them..db's somewhere around 82 or 86. Really inefficent speakers but huge soundstage and realistic sounding. Think of a heating blanket streched in a wood frame, and a large crossover..
Have the 700 on the table all setup to do the load sharing tomorrow...can't wait bought two BIG load resistors 4 ohm 300w for 20 bucks...
Problem with these things is they are 6' by 2.5' wide planars, its all wire and magnets so the current these things draw is more than my infinities, I'm still looking for the paper i read about not using the 700b on these speakers because of the load...something to do with the impedance change through the frequency range...almost like the Infinity Q's...but more current demanding. Use a crown PSA2 or my Mo's paralleled to drive them..db's somewhere around 82 or 86. Really inefficent speakers but huge soundstage and realistic sounding. Think of a heating blanket streched in a wood frame, and a large crossover..
Have the 700 on the table all setup to do the load sharing tomorrow...can't wait bought two BIG load resistors 4 ohm 300w for 20 bucks...
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The Carys are SLM-100s. I wasn't going by the review. I was going by the measurements. I have used a few different tubes in my other amps I have had. As I get older my brain seems to kick things out that I haven't used in awhile. My first electrical project was a 3 watt tubed mono amp in school. That was going on 40 years ago. To many beers and way to many drugs ago. LOL The 70s were a good time to come of age.
Larry
Larry
Larry
That was a great time sometimes wish could go back...no cares everybody knew everybody and the police weren't a**holes, slap your wrist take your beer and chase you home..
Yep i remember my 5 watt 6bq5 amp with 12ax7 triode front end..thats where the trouble began.
Have you tried KT88's in your Cary..? Did yours come with EL34's? If it came with the KT's or 6550's you should try KT90's heard and read they are the shit!!! Kicks the KT88 in the ass and sends them home crying...
That was a great time sometimes wish could go back...no cares everybody knew everybody and the police weren't a**holes, slap your wrist take your beer and chase you home..
Yep i remember my 5 watt 6bq5 amp with 12ax7 triode front end..thats where the trouble began.
Have you tried KT88's in your Cary..? Did yours come with EL34's? If it came with the KT's or 6550's you should try KT90's heard and read they are the shit!!! Kicks the KT88 in the ass and sends them home crying...