Help with transistor substitution on PL400

dcmeigs

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Apr 6, 2024
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#1
I’m rebuilding a PL14b driver board. I replaced both sets of the Q1 and Q2 with KSC1845 with excellent results [differing pinouts].

My 40327 Q5s are bad and I’m planning on using 2N3440 or 2N5414/15. Has anyone used these successfully or have another recommendation?

In the Q3 and Q4 position, the MPS-A93 is still available. Is there a reason why both transistors are not the same? Why not use an A93 for Q4? It’s a current mirror right? It’s seems intuitive that you’d want to use the same devices. What am I missing?

I’m still researching the other TO-39 devices. Any experience that can be offered would be appreciated.
 

Gepetto

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#2
Use the 2N3439 and 2N5415.

On your Q4 question, none of us were there so we would only be speculating. Q4 is a low voltage application, vs. Q3 which requires a high voltage device. Beyond that?????
 

mlucitt

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#5
It is OK to dip your toes in with the upgrade of a PL14b control board, many of us have done that. But when you pick up a White Oak Audio "Dual Mono" Rev G1 Control Board with four precision, +/- 15V regulated power supplies onboard, through-hole plating and two-side heavy copper etching with crisp and clear silk screening, all 1% resistors, no ceramic capacitors - just silver mica, Wima from Germany, Nichicon from Japan, and no capacitors in the signal path; you will appreciate the difference in technology from 1970 to 2019.
 

dcmeigs

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#6
I am interested in the white oak board. I cant seem to find a schematic or a forum thread discussing the circuit. I’ve seen the photos and they are very impressive.

I’ve built a few vacuum tube amps that turned out really well from designs produced by diyaudio members that were”supported“ by forum threads. These projects often are facilitated by some really nice PCBs which make the build quick, easy and reliable - and I certainly do appreciate those aspects. For me the attraction is the forum discussions with deep dives into the design with the engineering laid bare. I’ve typically done the calculations and drawn the load lines before I place the mouser order and stuff the boards. I suppose I feel more invested in these amps understanding them so well. I have not found anything like that for the white oak.
 

Gepetto

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#9
I am interested in the white oak board. I cant seem to find a schematic or a forum thread discussing the circuit. I’ve seen the photos and they are very impressive.

I’ve built a few vacuum tube amps that turned out really well from designs produced by diyaudio members that were”supported“ by forum threads. These projects often are facilitated by some really nice PCBs which make the build quick, easy and reliable - and I certainly do appreciate those aspects. For me the attraction is the forum discussions with deep dives into the design with the engineering laid bare. I’ve typically done the calculations and drawn the load lines before I place the mouser order and stuff the boards. I suppose I feel more invested in these amps understanding them so well. I have not found anything like that for the white oak.
WO Design schematics are proprietary and not for posting on open forums...sorry about that.
 

dcmeigs

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#11
Do you publish the input impedance? Are there still germanium devices?
WO Design schematics are proprietary and not for posting on open forums...sorry about that.
Okay. Do you publish the input impedance? Have you moved on from germanium devices?
 

mlucitt

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#13
I am interested in the white oak board. I cant seem to find a schematic or a forum thread discussing the circuit. I’ve seen the photos and they are very impressive.
The White Oak Audio PL14_20 Rev G1 Dual Mono Control Board can be found here:
https://www.whiteoakaudio.com/estore.aspx
You will receive the proprietary schematic after your purchase. Here is some history of the WOA Control Board.

Phase Linear had become known as "Blaze Linear" or "Flame Linear" in the 1980s and 1990s because their control boards had a tendency to 'Latch up' at Turn On and this condition sent the full rail voltage (80VDC for PL400, 100VDC for PL700) directly to the Speaker Outputs, typically the Left Speaker.
This was caused by transistors in the front end of the circuit turning on fully and passing the rail voltage through the circuit. Phase Linear was aware of the problem but could not solve it. Not all amplifiers were affected but many very expensive speakers were trashed over time.

Joe King at White Oak Audio is a talented Electrical Engineer and decided to re-create the Phase Linear PL14/PL20 control board to eliminate the Latch Up problem in 2010. His first release was Rev A and although it did improve the original circuit design by, 1) using modern technology to double side the board, redesign the layout, and increase the thickness and width of many traces, 2) utilize voltage regulation for onboard DC Power instead of large power resistors, 3) use modern high grade components, and 4) improved the grounding paths on the control board; this did not prevent the new Control Board from Latching Up.
Joe took his design to an eSPICE simulator program and discovered the source of the problem. Capacitor C6 was charging to rapidly and allowing Q2 to turn on fully. To solve this problem, two signal diodes were placed back to back across C6 and this slowed the charging enough to let the circuit stabilize at Turn On (see the picture below of my modified Rev A Control Board).
WOA Rev A Control Board Rear.jpg

Later revisions incorporated those signal diodes and eventually the front end transistors were replaced by OPAMP circuits similar to the later Phase Linear PL36 control boards. We have never seen a Latch Up since and often wonder if Phase Linear would still be in business today if they had been able to solve this problem.
Of course the current Rev G1 Control Board is the ultimate Phase Linear replacement thanks to the Dual Mono configuration and four precision +/-15VDC power supplies onboard.
 
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