Another opinion on Counterpoint Amplifiers

Yeah, I don't know. Maybe I am just uneducated but I have always felt that adding a subwoofer would bbe like cheating.
 
When I had my Advents, with the first Counterpoint, before my Vandersteens, I had a 15” down-firing non-powered sub. (Our favorite brand: DAK!)

The room was small but it helped fill that void. Also made a nice amp stand between my speakers (I had the rack on one side then).

Reproducing bass in a small room is like a short-scale guitar. The sound is the right pitch but the long scale has do much more “meat” to it.

The waveforms of low frequencies are long, and in a small room they are reflecting back onto themselves before they’ve fully developed.

Adding more/larger drivers and power plus room EQ all help but put the same unaltered system in a larger room and the bass “appears” and sounds more natural. It’s not over-amplified and being stuffed down your throat.

Sonetimes, using the same room but setting up on a different wall can make an improvement.

The room is as big a part of a good system as the speakers are.
 
I was able to get a Solid one amp, got it for cheap one channel is not working, no service manual or schematics

what do you guys make of the design ?

Screenshot at 2025-02-22 18-07-57.pngScreenshot at 2025-02-22 18-07-45.png
 
I might have something but it’s a pretty simple design as I recall.

Since one channel works, rest both from input to output and the difference in the bad channel is where the problem probably is.
 
Well, Mike Elliott is dead so I wouldn’t hold my breath on that.
 
I also would not hesitate if he was able to do an upgrade. I don’t know what happened to Alta vista audio after he passed…

But when I spoke with him he lamented Counterpoint tying his hands to work to a price point. Alta Vista let him build what he really felt was the best so I suspect those will be spectacular. Very rare because with cost no object construction, they were pricey.
 
SirPaulGerman said:
I just wonder if that upgrade make sense or is just pure hype
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Looking at the schematic, it appears there are resistors for each MJ15022/3 so I suspect it would be open to repair that the SA-12/120 and 20/220 do not like, as those amps are matched components with no resistor. "Sounds better" without the resistor but the matching and fragility of the amp go way up.

Innovative design, but troublesome as well.

These "solid" amps appear much more repair friends from my limited electronics knowledge.
 
It uses the same transistors as the APT-1 power amp, even though the Counterpoint is 11 years newer than the APT
I wonder did he used old transistors in a 90s amp
 
Maybe because he could buy in bulk and begin the sorting process on them?
 
I guess we will never know
I have the apt 1 amp, very powerful amp, which one do you think is the better one ?
 
I’ve not heard it but the preamp is held in high regard.
 
J!m said:
And I think if you’re careful- electrically and mechanically- they hold up just fine.

It’s really too bad they did not endure, and that Mike is gone. I’m surprised no one has gathered up enough dead ones and did some reverse engineering on them to produce new products.

An SA-220 based on j-fets, rather than the obsolete mosfets, seems like a good idea in my head…

They made a great sounding product at an acheiveable price point (sort of the way Rolex used to be). I’m somewhat out of touch with the newest stuff but other than the Schitt coming out of California I don’t know of anything that fills those shoes. Not even sure that Schiit can do it.
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Just acquired an SA 100 that has had the mosfets and other parts replaced...someone spent considerable money at Parts Connection, then sold the amp. This amp does not sound like the other Counterpoint amps I have (and had...Bob). Top end is almost shrill...wonder if Jim or someone has heard one of these amps with different mosfets...is this a typical change in tone? Tubes are new EH6922s, coupling caps are Miflex. Since the mod/service was done two years ago Im assuming the new parts are broken in. Any thoughts would be welcome. The other Counterpoints sounded warm and mellow with my Quad ESLs...this one sounds like a low end transistor amp trying to deal with the ESL impedance curve.
 

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I spoke with Mike way back and he told me they had to match up the mosfets and bought thousand piece lots to do that. It might even be true.

But there is nothing to balance them and they won’t current share properly if not matched.

They also did an extended burn in to keep drift under control, and would occasionally replace a mosfets that was hogging current.

This is why he developed his upgrade at Alta vista. He replaced the output boards with a different design. I never heard these.

But it is important to know he always lamented counterpoint tying his hands so he couldn’t build what he truly wanted to build. He had to compromise on design and component choices to meet price points. He didn’t have that at Alta vista and the sales prices reflected that.
 
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