On the fence about whether to stick with a pair of 400's or go up to the 700B

premiumplus

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#1
Aye, buddies...
I'm trying to make my mind up as to whether to go for a 700B or stay with a pair of PL 400's that I already have.
Whichever way I do go, I intend to go the whole route with White Oak.
There are basically two issues I'm wrestling with.

First is the fact that I've got a Dahlquist DQ-10 system that I'm bi-amping with the Dahlquist active crossover, so the system needs two amps. Also, I only have one of the DQ-1W subs right now, so I am running it with the "center channel" output option on the Dahlquist active crossover.
If I do go the 700B option, would I then need TWO 700B's for bi-amping, or would I use one 700B for the mains and a 400 for the subs, or vice versa...and which would get the big guy?
Secondly, and this is important: I have heard the the PL400 amplifiers are sweeter sounding than the 700B is. Does that still hold true for WOPLs?

Today I'm going to do a little test that should be instructive for us. I will measure the output being delivered from the amps to the main DQ-10's and to the DQ-1W subwoofer. That should help understand my needs for bi-amping at least, and I'll post the results later.

Meanwhile, what do you all think about these options for powering the Dahlquist system? Typically, I don't usually exceed 100 to 105 dB or so, but when I do I can hear the amps beginning to lose it. I assume the speakers can handle it, but I've never heard Dahlquists wound up to the max before. This is before White Oak, but the 400 amps DO have new caps, including filters, and new output transistors, MJ21196G.
 

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Using a Checkmate CM-140 sound level meter, I got the following voltages at 102.5 db, C weighted:
With a Fluke model 87 true rms dmm, I measure:
16.00 vrms to the main DQ-10, left channel only.
30.08 vrms to the sub DQ-1W, driven with center channel output to one channel of a PL400.

The mains sounded clear and the subwoofer was beginning to mud up.

It's looking like I'll need a 700B for the subwoofers unless doing the White Oak thang is going to up the power output and clarity considerably.

Thoughts?
 

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#3
I can vouch for how sweet the 400s sound, Jer did mine with the WO upgrades and she sings like a canary. Really looking forward to next year when maybe I can afford to do the full comp to it

As for your question, more power available is always good, just depends if you have the extra coin at the time and the wife does not give you dirty looks while telling you to turn it down
 

Elite-ist

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#4
Twin WOPL 700Bs would be my first choice. 2nd choice would be WOPL 400 for mains and WOPL 700B for sub. 3rd choice would be Stax headphones.

Nando.
 

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#5
Thanks for clearing that up Nando!!


Dave, what are the impedences of the DQ's??
 

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Thanks for clearing that up Nando!!


Dave, what are the impedences of the DQ's??
Lee, the impedance of both the main DQ-10's and the DQ-1W are rated at 8 ohms on the input terminals.

FWIW, so far I only have one subwoofer, but I'm actively seeking a mate for it.
It sounds so good with one sub driven from the summed center channel on the Dahlquist DQ-LP1 crossover that I can't wait to hear it with stereo subwoofers...
 

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Lee, the impedance of both the main DQ-10's and the DQ-1W are rated at 8 ohms on the input terminals.

FWIW, so far I only have one subwoofer, but I'm actively seeking a mate for it.
It sounds so good with one sub driven from the summed center channel on the Dahlquist DQ-LP1 crossover that I can't wait to hear it with stereo subwoofers...
Shouldn't be to tough a load then...
 

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Shouldn't be to tough a load then...
Yeah, I have an old Crown DC-300A that has been recapped and runs nicely. I tried it in bridge mode but I'm afraid of one of those old output transistors shorting and turning my vintage 13" unobtanium Seas/Dahlquist woofer into new wallpaper...
And actually, I think it sounded tighter and cleaner with the Phase Linear 400. Can only imagine what a WOPL 700B would do.

It is clear that the subwoofers are pulling about twice the output current that the mains do, so I guess I am officially in the market for a nice donor 700B for the full monte White Oak treatment. And I'm still on the fence about whether to go ahead and White Oak at least one of my 400's. The question is, will a WOPL 400 run out of steam before the DQ-10's do, given that they're bi-amped? I don't really know how far I can push those old girls before they rebel and blow a voice coil. And I do know that an amp driven into clipping is way worse for speakers than overpowering them with a clean one!

Lee, what is the formula you use to estimate final output from a WOPL given the rail voltage?
 

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Yeah, I have an old Crown DC-300A that has been recapped and runs nicely. I tried it in bridge mode but I'm afraid of one of those old output transistors shorting and turning my vintage 13" unobtanium Seas/Dahlquist woofer into new wallpaper...
And actually, I think it sounded tighter and cleaner with the Phase Linear 400. Can only imagine what a WOPL 700B would do.

It is clear that the subwoofers are pulling about twice the output current that the mains do, so I guess I am officially in the market for a nice donor 700B for the full monte White Oak treatment. And I'm still on the fence about whether to go ahead and White Oak at least one of my 400's. The question is, will a WOPL 400 run out of steam before the DQ-10's do, given that they're bi-amped? I don't really know how far I can push those old girls before they rebel and blow a voice coil. And I do know that an amp driven into clipping is way worse for speakers than overpowering them with a clean one!

Lee, what is the formula you use to estimate final output from a WOPL given the rail voltage?

No formula, pure empirical data from measuring numerous conversions. I could probably come up with one...
 

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#13
70-80 % of amp power is for the bass range. Up to 700-800Hz What are the drivers in the DQ 10's without the subs?
 
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