Help Needed With Self Inflicted WOPL Build Wound....Above My Pay Grade

WWH

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#1
First of all a big thanks to everyone who contributes here...I wouldn't have completed the project without it. Now a disclaimer. I have restored a couple of tube integrated amps, a Sherwood tube receiver and a very early Sherwood solid state receiver..... And up until a couple of days ago a successful full WOPL PL 400. I'm learning as I go but all I've done was only possible due to pretty specific information on what to do. As Dirty Harry said "A man's got to know his limitations". My limitations are somewhere in that big gap between being able to follow instructions/replace items and truly understanding/diagnosing a problem. That said, here's my problem.

Between the kit instructions and info on here I managed a successful full WOPL upgrade. Have to say the accomplishment felt good as it was a one time through, no problems experience. Once that was done I felt the whole deal was worthy of the light bar upgrade. So once I got it I did the install. I was ready for the test run so I hooked it to the variac and was ready. It was in the typical heat sink down/face plate up working position. I flipped the face plate back into position to better see the meters. I started to increase voltage on the variac and when I hit around 60-70v I saw some smoke....I quickly turned down the variac and said some bad words. I turned it off and lifted the face plate and said several more bad words as I saw two of the wires that connect to the meters dangling down. Some massive brain fart resulted in me somehow not connecting two wires to the meter terminals before I flipped the plate into place. Once the cussing stopped I started looking for the smoke source. I found a blackened resistor on the right channel side of the control board, lower right corner. ( I've included pictures of the charred resistor in hopes the location can help with a diagnosis ). I didn't see any other burn marks, etc.

Once the cussing stopped I replaced the resistor and attached the meter wires (bringing back bad memories and causing me to mumble insults at myself). With that hope that you can't help but have (yet you know is likely to melt away) I plugged it back into the variac and started to up the voltage. Short version...I made it to full power, no fuses blew, the speaker protection relay clicked into action, the meter lights lit up and no smoke signals. I optimistically moved on to an actual speaker test. I powered down, hooked up my test speakers and powered back up. Then I went to plug in the rca cable to the left amp output. As soon as the connector made contact, the speaker made something of a popping sound followed by a loud hum. Actually let's call it a very loud hum. After a quick disconnect I tried the right channel and the same thing happened. The rca cable was not connected to any source. The loud hum is triggered by simply connecting the cable to the amp.

I did the smart thing and left the workbench for the night. I knew my next step was to get to this forum as my diagnostic ability stopped at the black resistor. As I said, I included a couple of pictures of the affected resistor. I figured that someone may want the values from the test points on the boards so I went back to the scene of the crime. They are as follows.
Left channel back plane: Bias+ = .360v... B+ = 78v... Output = 0... Bias- = -.364v... B- = -78v
Right channel back plane: Bias+ = .365v... B+ = 78v... Output = 0... Bias- = -.365v... B- = -78v
Control board bias: Right: .364v and Left: .364v


Thanks in advance for any help and please bear with me when it comes to working on this....My free time has no schedule so please don't think a slow response means I'm not working at it. Not about to be done in by my own hand.


P3310283a.JPG P3310282.JPG P3310284.JPG
 

mlucitt

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#3
I would want to know what your meter reads (on the DC Volts Scale) on the Left and Right Speaker Binding Posts to either Black Speaker Binding Post. This is called DC Offset and it should be .000 (plus or minus a few) Volts with the WOA Control Board installed. I see you have a DCP Relay/Delay installed. It clearly has to latch when you get near full supply voltage for this measurement to work.

I always check this with the amplifier on and warmed up before I connect any speakers. If this check is good then connect your speakers WITH the RCA cables connected to a preamplifier (turned off or all the way down) and see if you get the buzz/hum. Connecting an input to a powered amp that has no volume controls will always result in a hair-raising BUZZ.

You fried R41R which is connected to Pin 3R and the source for Pin 3R is Fused B- (-75VDC). This voltage is the supply to Q9R on the Control Board. I would do cold resistance checks on Q9R just for fun. Sometimes the resistors absorb our mistakes.

Don't worry, we have all made Self-Inflicted Wounds when working on our amplifiers, it's how we learn.
 

WWH

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#4
Don't be pluggin stuff in and out with power applied to that amp. you'll let more smoke out than you'll know what to do with. :)
No plugging in going on...I still hear my dad telling me you have to know when to stop digging the hole deeper.

I would want to know what your meter reads (on the DC Volts Scale) on the Left and Right Speaker Binding Posts to either Black Speaker Binding Post. This is called DC Offset and it should be .000 (plus or minus a few) Volts with the WOA Control Board installed. I see you have a DCP Relay/Delay installed. It clearly has to latch when you get near full supply voltage for this measurement to work.

I always check this with the amplifier on and warmed up before I connect any speakers. If this check is good then connect your speakers WITH the RCA cables connected to a preamplifier (turned off or all the way down) and see if you get the buzz/hum. Connecting an input to a powered amp that has no volume controls will always result in a hair-raising BUZZ.

You fried R41R which is connected to Pin 3R and the source for Pin 3R is Fused B- (-75VDC). This voltage is the supply to Q9R on the Control Board. I would do cold resistance checks on Q9R just for fun. Sometimes the resistors absorb our mistakes.

Don't worry, we have all made Self-Inflicted Wounds when working on our amplifiers, it's how we learn.
DC Offset is .000 for both channels. DCP Relay/Delay does latch. I plugged into a preamp and still get the loud hum. Transistor check is a new one for me...I'll need the info on how to do a cold resistance check on the transistor.
 

laatsch55

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#6
Most of the semiconductors on the board can be tested in circuit....at least for shorts and opens...
 

wattsabundant

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#7
Variacs do not limit current. A 100 watt incandescent bulb in a dim bnulb test set will limit current to less than 1 amp. Always use the dim bulb test set when powering up any project the first time. I use 25 to 40 watt for small receivers, preamps and signal processors.

Loud hum suggests a lifted/broken ground lead. What scale was the meter on when measurirng offset? Are you sure the meter was on DC, not AC? I would expect a few millivolts at least. The relay must be energizing or there would be no sound.
 

WWH

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#8
Thanks for the link...will read that as soon as I can.
Variacs do not limit current. A 100 watt incandescent bulb in a dim bnulb test set will limit current to less than 1 amp. Always use the dim bulb test set when powering up any project the first time. I use 25 to 40 watt for small receivers, preamps and signal processors.

Loud hum suggests a lifted/broken ground lead. What scale was the meter on when measurirng offset? Are you sure the meter was on DC, not AC? I would expect a few millivolts at least. The relay must be energizing or there would be no sound.
I did build a dim bulb tester when I started the project (thank you to Mark Comer for the videos...they may be a bit old but still helpful stuff to be found). I used it on all the original build power ups but just didn't think to hook it up for the light board test....lesson learned. As for the DC offset I rechecked and went with DC millivolt range this time. I got .000 on the right and .003 on the left.
 

George S.

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#9
Do you have a file that Joe sent with all the others, called "Quick Test for PL 14_20 boards QC and FC"? This has debug procedures. You'll need some 47 ohm 1/2 watt resistors.
 

WWH

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#10
I would want to know what your meter reads (on the DC Volts Scale) on the Left and Right Speaker Binding Posts to either Black Speaker Binding Post. This is called DC Offset and it should be .000 (plus or minus a few) Volts with the WOA Control Board installed. I see you have a DCP Relay/Delay installed. It clearly has to latch when you get near full supply voltage for this measurement to work.

I always check this with the amplifier on and warmed up before I connect any speakers. If this check is good then connect your speakers WITH the RCA cables connected to a preamplifier (turned off or all the way down) and see if you get the buzz/hum. Connecting an input to a powered amp that has no volume controls will always result in a hair-raising BUZZ.

You fried R41R which is connected to Pin 3R and the source for Pin 3R is Fused B- (-75VDC). This voltage is the supply to Q9R on the Control Board. I would do cold resistance checks on Q9R just for fun. Sometimes the resistors absorb our mistakes.

Don't worry, we have all made Self-Inflicted Wounds when working on our amplifiers, it's how we learn.
I tested the transistor per the instructions on the link given above for a PNP transistor....The neg. base to pos. collector is .56, the neg. base to pos. emitter is .56. The remaining measurements all registered some voltage...I'm assuming due to being in circuit as mentioned in the instructions.
 

George S.

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#12
Good deal. It's been a couple years since I blew up a WOAD control board due to my overlooking a simple issue. Wasn't too hard to fix. I did comparative testing from one side of the board to the other to narrow down the blown transistor. Just be very careful not to slip a probe causing a short and more issues.
While your at it, review your LED board wiring and make sure it's correct and not causing a issue.
 

WWH

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#13
I tested according to the quick test sheet and everything checked out OK...hoped something would show up but that would be too easy.
 

WWH

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#15
My plan was to decide on a pre-amp after the amp was done...but for the build testing I used the pre-amp out from a Sansui receiver I have. It's not restored yet but the original test worked on it. At this point I can't get past the hooking up as the loud hum starts as soon as the rca cables connect to the outputs..whether or not the preamp is on or not. Just in case I have a second receiver with pre amp out and that had the same result.
 

WWH

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#16
I also just noticed I have a low but noticeable hum from the speakers when the amp in on and the speakers are hooked up.
 

Gepetto

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#17
We would really benefit from more pictures of the entire amp build. Those might help us help you.
 

George S.

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#20
Regarding your DC offset. You stated 0 mV on the left, and 3 mV on the right.
The 400 S2 WOPL I brought up to power this past Monday showed 0.4 mV and 1 mV. These #s are exactly representative of all three of my WOPLs.
Perhaps this is a indication of the issue.
At the RCA jacks, are the signal wires clear of making contact with the ground? Looks like there's a solder blob shorting the lower jacks signal.
 
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