Dual-500 king of the Castle

The Powerful Difference said:
Lee,

High performance audio by audio enthusiasts is a little different game than the 'audiophiles' tweaking their well-behaved mini-monitors. From what I can tell, a pair of those speakers being driven by a Class A amp (or SET?) are never going to dynamically pull on an AC circuit like we can & do on a regular basis.

It's like getting into a conversation about how to best tame wheel hop on an old big block muscle car, and the people sitting around you that drive Toyota Prius's have no idea what wheel hop is...or how violent it can be.

But not to worry -- someday, just like NeverSatisfied, I won't be pre-occupied with all this junque -- I'll just be listening to the music in my newly renovated audio decompression chamber. I won't even look at the RCA line meter...that often. :0)

Cheers --
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My audio listening life has so far had three phases, the first was I WANT IT LOUD and if it didn't distort then it was GOOD. The second phase was I WANT IT PERFECT and I obsessed over every detail. My current phase is a little more balanced and now colored by my love of vintage gear. I think that unfortunately the fourth phase will probably revert back to phase one because my Tinnitus is worsening every year and I am already having to use my girlfriend as my system checker for the high frequencies. Luckily she has perfect hearing and after 12 years of being around good audio she knows what good sound is.
 
laatsch55 said:
Spence, Jani serves the same purpose at our house. She can usually tell from upstairs if I've changed something..
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Ain't it great when your loved ones participate in your obsession's ? Even if somewhat reluctant at first, my love is now fully enjoying my audio journey, she still thinks I am bat shit crazy but she does love the music.
 
So a long put off job is on the bench. Three Fastlane eliptrak 400 wooden midrange horns.

The tweeter horns are finished. Still need to get drivers for them.

I got 4 BMS drivers from Mark a while ago for the three I am building with a spare left over. I ordered new diaphragms for the BMS’s from England. They a lot cheaper that way even though they are made in Italy right or wrong I got them in 16ohm 1B9DD19A-9288-4D97-A984-9EEFCEBCD006.jpegD942D09D-753D-432A-9DB6-EC0873D780CD.jpeg868B29A4-44B7-4755-A982-E2B968FFEDD2.jpegE6ECE905-B853-4FA1-9141-2FE127482E06.jpegDC8075C3-BAED-40AB-B5DC-2B1BA5A79F71.jpeg
 
From the vendor.​
Many thanks for your enquiry. The 16 ohm replacement midrange diaphragm for the BMS 4592ND are at £101.77 each, the Beyma CP25 £46.93 each – shipping works out to £100.48, so for 4 off 4592 diaphragms and 4 off Beyma CP25 that comes to £695.25.​
I think that the diaphragms worked out to about $125 us each. The tweeter used much of the shipping cost.
I ended up with three diaphragms and only two teeters.
 
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NeverSatisfied said:
Glen your a man of many talents, did you hand router the horn segments or use CNC ?
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Thanks Spencer . Yes I used a kitchen fork and knife and chiseled these out one night.


Not!

They are made with a CNC table router by Dave Harris he offers these kits to be assembled and finished. He doesn’t do then as a main item in his business so if he agrees to make them for you it may take a while.
His email is listed on this page.

http://www.alkeng.com/trachorn.html

here is a thread from our site Mark did

https://forums.phxaudiotape.com/threads/eliptrac-400.3381/
 
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grapplesaw said:
Thanks Spencer . Yes I used a kitchen fork and knife and chiseled these out one night.


Not!

They are made with a CNC table router by Dave Harris he offers these kits to be assembled and finished. He doesn’t do then as a main item in his business so if he agrees to make them for you it may take a while.
His email is listed on this page.

http://www.alkeng.com/trachorn.html

here is a thread from our site Mark did

https://forums.phxaudiotape.com/threads/eliptrac-400.3381/
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Thanks, interesting stuff. I have never owned a set of horns and have only briefly heard a couple different sets in my whole audio life.
I know some swear by them and others dislike them, someday I hope to make my own determination.
I bet I like them.
 
NeverSatisfied said:
Thanks, interesting stuff. I have never owned a set of horns and have only briefly heard a couple different sets in my whole audio life.
I know some swear by them and others dislike them, someday I hope to make my own determination.
I bet I like them.
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Spencer I am now in the converted camp. I was around large PA systems in my 20’s and grew to hate horns as they were far from flat sounding. After being here on the site Lee convinced me to by a pair of k-horns. No looking back now as the sound stage is wide and full range. As well the folded bass horns complement the mid and high range horns so well.

My Bother came to visit last year and listened to these speakers and said they were the best he ever heard. To qualify his opinion please note He ran the Kelly Delong Sound PA for years and worked sound with many famous bands. He had work in quite a number of recording studios mixing tracks. These studios have pretty good monitor setups
 
grapplesaw said:
Spencer I am now in the converted camp. I was around large PA systems in my 20’s and grew to hate horns as they were far from flat sounding. After being here on the site Lee convinced me to by a pair of k-horns. No looking back now as the sound stage is wide and full range. As well the folded bass horns complement the mid and high range horns so well.

My Bother came to visit last year and listened to these speakers and said they were the best he ever heard. To qualify his opinion please note He ran the Kelly Delong Sound PA for years and worked sound with many famous bands. He had work in quite a number of recording studios mixing tracks. These studios have pretty good monitor setups
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That’s a pretty convincing endorsement. As with the several speaker discussions of late, good sound after a certain level of competence is really in the ears of the beholder. One of the attractions to vintage gear for me is that it is a little colored, a lot of new high end gear sounds too sterile and fatiguing to my ears. I have never read about anyone ever accusing horns of sounding sterile, most complaints are just the opposite. I know many audiophiles poopoo on the use of EQ in a system but I disagree, if the use of EQ makes your system sound better to YOU, then why the hell not. You can’t make an electrostat sound like a point source or perhaps a horn but you can fill in some inherent deficiency or shape the sound to your liking. Just like the audio engineers do when they record the music we love.
Because of this site and the endorsements of people I consider like minded or at least similar minded, auditioning and perhaps building a set of horns is now on my to do list. (It’s a very long list).
 
Spence, audition a set first, even if you can find a decent pair of K's, it's gonna take another 3000 to upograde to what Glen is talking about...the stock Klipsch woofer is the one they got right, in fact the Crites 1526 C is a copy of that. The mids and tweets is where the improvement comes from. The stock 1" drivers in the fiberglass or plastic mid horns are really an embarrassment to Klipsch I believe. 2" drivers and wood horns really makes a vast improvement. Not near as squawky...or whatever term best describes that objectionable horn quality. Lot of good tweets out there too. And then there is the crossover, I'm running Al Klappenberger's EXTREEEEEEme slope crosses. They ain't cheap either, 1600.00 a pair.,.It takes a lot of money to get horns right.....but when ya do, it's worth every penny
 
laatsch55 said:
Spence, audition a set first, even if you can find a decent pair of K's, it's gonna take another 3000 to upograde to what Glen is talking about...the stock Klipsch woofer is the one they got right, in fact the Crites 1526 C is a copy of that. The mids and tweets is where the improvement comes from. The stock 1" drivers in the fiberglass or plastic mid horns are really an embarrassment to Klipsch I believe. 2" drivers and wood horns really makes a vast improvement. Not near as squawky...or whatever term best describes that objectionable horn quality. Lot of good tweets out there too. And then there is the crossover, I'm running Al Klappenberger's EXTREEEEEEme slope crosses. They ain't cheap either, 1600.00 a pair.,.It takes a lot of money to get horns right.....but when ya do, it's worth every penny
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I think remember stumbling across one of your post about the crossovers, 24db per octave were they?
 
My opinion is that horns (generalization as I've not heard every horn made) sound best with tube outputs, due to their low power and roll-off. I really think they match well. It makes me wonder if the old horns were "tuned" to compliment the tube amps of the era. That would certainly make sense.

But, a powerful, clean, solid state amp and horns sounds over-bright and too "live" for me.

I auditioned a pair of Klipsch speakers ~25 years ago (floor standers- not sure of the model) and on "live" recordings, as in, live concerts that were recorded, they were awesome. Loved them. It was like being a member of the audience.

When I put in a studio recording, they really sounded too bright to me. Like over-emphasized in the midrange in particular. I really didn't care for them that way. Most of my records and CDs are studio recordings.

This test was "in-store" (Tweeter, Etc.) with their equipment and Copies of CDs they had on hand, that I was familiar with. I think the live one was SRV and the studio one was the Police. I was A-B ing them with a pair of Polk speakers (don't remember that model either, but floorstanding in a similar price bracket) and I preferred the Polks. I purchased neither.

I also auditioned (at a nicer stereo shop) a pair of electrostatics, and, in the sweet spot they were absolutely amazing. But, I need to wear a HANS device so my head does not move, because a small change in head position made a huge impact on the sound. Those don't fit my needs either. I think this was the same shop that sold Snell, and where I heard the C4s, in another listening room...

For me, dynamic speakers with a first-order crossover sound best. I had Vandersteen model 1's for several years which I eventually replaced with the Thiel 2.2s I have now. (wish I could listen to them!)
 
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