Who Bi-wires (...not bi-amps)

BlazeES

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#1
Who Bi-wires compatible speakers to essentially separate cross-over terminals (terminal bridges removed) supplying from a single, high-powered amp ... and what are your experiences. If you're older and have diminished hearing, your recollections from the past are still valuable.

Detailed descriptions of the equipment used and your personal observations welcomed !
 

Lazarus Short

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#2
I tried it with my Yamaha DSP-A2070 amp and Vandersteen 2C speakers. Improvement was minimal, and I am being generous when I say that.
 

62vauxhall

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#3
I bought a long run of Kimber Kable specifically for that reason when I got some Infinity's. At that time I needed 35' for one side so doubled it for equal length. If I had to buy two 70' lengths of something else, it would have bitten too far into that month's intoxicant budget.

My reason for wishing to bi-wire was twofold:

a) The Infinity's were brand new and could be bi-wired.
b) It was supposed to be better

In any case, I noticed zip difference bi-wiring. I don't need 35' anymore so chopped off two 15' lengths and sold the rest. Still no difference that I can notice.

And having sound rooms to play around in for over 30 years, I can safely say I didn't notice any difference there either. Believe me, the other sales guy's and I would have loved to conduct a demo showing a bona fide improvement between single and bi-wired speaker runs. Commission on double the wire would have been sweet but it was not going to happen. Since none of us could hear an improvement, neither would a customer.
 

BlazeES

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#4
Thanks guys, appreciate the insight.

Took some time tonight to see what the 'it's gotta be true, I read it on the' interwebs had to say. Stumbled on this:

https://www.qacoustics.co.uk/blog/2016/06/08/bi-wiring-speakers-exploration-benefits/

I get the approach taken. I get the spectral analysis from a control-group (low freqs and high freqs) standpoint too. I was saddened to see the emergence of the IMD angle - because that alone is super controversial - but again maybe it matters. But what I did notice after reading that 'article' a couple of times over was a failure by the writer to address the the audible impact of the IMD components in the first place and specifically, the audible impact of the attenuation's of the electrically quantified IMD at such low levels.

Or in other words, is measured IMD at levels down some 50, 60 or 70 db from the clean signal even perceivable in the first place ? These pure tone experiments seem rather sketchy to me.

And the test method seems suspicious to me too. They measured the test pattern directly off the CD player output prior to amplification in an "all in one" system.
LOL ... what the hell was it ... Sound Design gear ? So haven't they simply proven that the amplifier stage in that all-in-one is a pile of s h ! t, against their speakers, performance wise ? ... or maybe that their cross-over design is junk ... or both ?

The notes at the bottom of that article pretty much debunks the effort. Kudos AND shame to the writer for admitting it.

*

They reference/cite this Peavey engineer as a basis for their scientific method:
http://www.geocities.ws/jonrisch/PhiSpectral3.htm
 
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VSAT88

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#5
I could not wait to try it on the SDA SRSb's I had. What a laugh. The extra speaker wire came in handy though.
 

BlazeES

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#6
And then I found the meat of this same web article from QAcoustics (the speaker company) in QED's (the cable company) white paper section.
 

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Fishoz

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#7
Bi wire..yes. Why...because they were cheap and I wanted to try. Opinion...difference in soundstage, I liked it so they stayed! Simple!
 

BlazeES

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#8
Bi wire..yes. Why...because they were cheap and I wanted to try. Opinion...difference in soundstage, I liked it so they stayed! Simple!
Tell me more Fish. What's the gear? Do you have a specific 'stellar' recording that really makes an example of the change in soundstage?
 

Fishoz

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#10
Just removed the jumpers on the 808’s and found a set of bi wires for $10 on Craigslist that turned out to be custom made by a well regarded guy from FL. Called him just to confirm he wasn’t a hack...good wire& quality.

At my age Tony a change in sound cures listening fatigue. Just found that there was a diff in wider soundstage, more defined center.

My fave test recording is Tomita’s Snowflakes are Dancing...very defined sounds, well spaced that let you determine location in soundstage. Some segments can take you around 360 degrees. Good recording to compare components with.
 

BlazeES

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#11
Just removed the jumpers on the 808’s and found a set of bi wires for $10 on Craigslist that turned out to be custom made by a well regarded guy from FL. Called him just to confirm he wasn’t a hack...good wire& quality.

At my age Tony a change in sound cures listening fatigue. Just found that there was a diff in wider soundstage, more defined center.

My fave test recording is Tomita’s Snowflakes are Dancing...very defined sounds, well spaced that let you determine location in soundstage. Some segments can take you around 360 degrees. Good recording to compare components with.

Thanks man. That's good point-of-reference stuff.

I had forgotten that you had 808's. "Perfection to 120 db"
 
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kingman

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#12
Ran MIT Bi-wires with the Carver AL3's. Sounded real good. Never ran them without so no comparison available.
 

BlazeES

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#14
Damn.....digesting that is tedious. .
There's actually some good nuggets in there.

I've actually found a lot of IMD nuggets scattered all over the 'interweb' place. So much so, I needed two Excedrin and a break.

I'm coming to the conclusion that IMD means little if THD is already at low levels over-all, across the audible spectrum and highly susceptible to the other 'path' contribution sources, like cross-overs - voice coils - and the human ear. Seems to me little to nothing has been done to quantify much less qualify IMD with proven microphones at 1 meter distances in an anechoic chamber and with controlled signal driving. Or maybe I just haven't found it.
 
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Bradrock

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#15
I have a manual here for the Souncraftsman MA5002 amp. There is a half page of info on ' Transient Intermodulation Distortion. T.I.M. And the test method proposed by the AES.
I'm not sure if it's of any interest. But you may try searching T.I.M. if it is.
 

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#16
I believe at hi levels I can here IMD on a certain Shpongle song bbn on " Are You Sphongled". Steve hears it too but thinks.it was the recording equipment Shpongle used mlm for their first album,....
 

BlazeES

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#17
Thanks. Yeah T.I.M. is a thing for sure and covered in a few places I landed. But it is 'transient' stuff and even more elusive in the bigger scheme of things.
 

BlazeES

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#18
IMD has also been attributed to the cochlea of the inner ear.

That said, when you remember Lee and have a chance, nail down the name of that particular song bud.
 
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laatsch55

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#19
Divine Moment of Truth. During the tribal drum sounding section, a faint crack can be heard in that one voice...
 

BlazeES

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#20
Could be a pressing issue too, if you both heard it on vinyl.
 
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