Stock PL 400 - worth $350?

62vauxhall

62vauxhall

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I saw a PL 400 today for $350 in reportedly working condition. It was on static display and I did not have enough time to demo so had to take the vendors word for it. I assume the meters work but did not ask. Not beat up, few if any scratches on front, graphics intact and back panel lettering looks pristine.

If the offset isn't hideously high and it does work, is it worth that money these days?
 
grapplesaw

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62vauxhall said:
I saw a PL 400 today for $350 in reportedly working condition. It was on static display and I did not have enough time to demo so had to take the vendors word for it. I assume the meters work but did not ask. Not beat up, few if any scratches on front, graphics intact and back panel lettering looks pristine.

If the offset isn't hideously high and it does work, is it worth that money these days?
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Gary if it is $350 Canadian dollars and has the 8 fin heat sink it should be a good buy. Test it out to see if the meters work. I got lots of used 400 parts if you need them.
 
62vauxhall

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Being in the neighbourhood earlier today, I went to look at that 400 a second time. Although hooking it up was offered I declined because it was a four fin. I suppose I should have checked for meter function and offset, but if it is undesireable, I figured why bother.

Four fins are undesireable, right?

If it is worth having, what would a fair price be?

I'm pretty sure the four fin heat sink was touched on in other threads but I can't remember what was said. Again please - what exactly is the disadvantage? Just runs too hot? When the switch was made to eight fin, were there any subsequent internal modifications?

If a four fin is not to be avoided like the plague, I could go back, check the meters & offset and make an offer.
 
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Four fins are fine Gary, just need some fans earlier than an 8 fin would. Nothing internal is different other than the bias transistor being in a different spot....
 
62vauxhall

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laatsch55 said:
Four fins are fine Gary, just need some fans earlier than an 8 fin would. Nothing internal is different other than the bias transistor being in a different spot....
Click to expand...
Yes, thank you. Bias transistor - that was it. I'll bring a DMM tomorrow and if I have the opportunity, drop in again and see it powered up and operating.
 
oldphaser

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I am not a real big fan of the stock earlier 400 series 1 amplifiers.

Early 400's used Midland VU meters. The Midlands were the most unreliable VU meters Phase Linear ever used.
(Following right behind it might be the Honeywell's used in early 700's.) Later 400's used much better VU meters like Dixson, Jewell and Honeywell and of course the extra heat-sinking.

Early 400's also used the PL400C series of pc boards. The PL400C's are loaded with carbon composition resistors which over time have drifted up in value. The ceramic disc capacitors are drifting down in value and the brands of electrolytics that Phase Linear was using at that time have proven to be unreliable and should all be replaced. It should be noted that the later PL14 series of boards can be troublesome to repair as well. The traces are not very substantial and can easily lift when de-soldering. At least the PL14 pc boards replaced most of the carbon composition resistors with carbon film resistors and the Nichicon electrolytics that were used on some boards have shown to be more reliable.

With all that being said I do have (3) 400 series 1 amps that I will be selling soon. All of them have had a ground up restoration on the pc boards as well as newer MJ series output transistors. Price will range between $400-$450 each. One of the amps is an earlier one with the PL400C pc board in it. It's the one I will be selling for $400.


Ed
 
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62vauxhall

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There were literally only a few minutes today to stop again to look at this amp once more. I had no time to listen, just observe. Both meters responded equally and lamps were lit but perhaps dimmer than they should be. After 5 or so minutes of being powered up and source disconnected, DC output was 15mv on each channel. A surprise that it was equal. Had the power transistor covers removed showing the mains were all PL8909. The amp's position and low light prevented me from seeing clearly the bottom row but they were all Motorola and best as I could see, had the same number. One had a dented can like grapplesaw encountered.

With top cover off, the board's number was hidden from view. Although there were a couple of carbon film resistors present, the lions share were carbon comp. That I guess makes it a PL400C mentioned by oldphaser.

Externally, there does not seem a mark on it which is what attracts me. The only potential deficiency might be dim meter lamps but I am unsure that this is so. Worth noting perhaps is the SN 349-923.

I have not done business with this vendor before except for the odd LP and accessory so don't know if hardware prices are negotiable. I suspect the clientele is mainly receiver/turntable/speakers.

I appreciate the heads up on the refurbished 400's but being in Canada, that $400 becomes >$500 plus shipping. I am contemplating this purchase purely on a whim. Even though I have next to no disposable income, I am tempted because it is a good looking example.
 
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62vauxhall said:
I saw a PL 400 today for $350 in reportedly working condition. It was on static display and I did not have enough time to demo so had to take the vendors word for it. I assume the meters work but did not ask. Not beat up, few if any scratches on front, graphics intact and back panel lettering looks pristine.

If the offset isn't hideously high and it does work, is it worth that money these days?
Click to expand...
$350 seems a little high without any rebuild or service. I'm thinking $300. I have 3 400's 2 4 fins and a series 2 8 fin. I have to disagree with the 4 fin being undesirable. Took mine to Carverfest and Bob loved it. Said he didn't think he had improved over the original Phase Linear sound much with his other series including Sunfire and his tube amps.
 
kingman

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No....I've heard a lot from Bonzoro about his amps but no one local to "put an ear" to one.
 
62vauxhall

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kingman said:
$350 seems a little high without any rebuild or service. I'm thinking $300. I have 3 400's 2 4 fins and a series 2 8 fin. I have to disagree with the 4 fin being undesirable. Took mine to Carverfest and Bob loved it. Said he didn't think he had improved over the original Phase Linear sound much with his other series including Sunfire and his tube amps.
Click to expand...
Last Friday I offered $250 but the shop owner wouldn't budge from $350. Offered to include a nice Kenwood KT7300 but no dice. Claims he doesn't discount but accepted $300 - no trade. I have yet to connect and listen to it.

Other than those few newish carbon film resistors, it appears to be bone stock and not a mark on the outside that I've seen yet.

This is the first 400 I've got to see up close and personal from all sides. Only seen front panels before. Kind of a tiddler compared to a 700B.

EDIT: What year/years would this have been made? Says Direct Coupled on the front. As mentioned, it is a 4 fin.
 
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laatsch55

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sECOND THAT, BUT i KINDA CAUGHT THE INFERENCE FROM HAVING A 400 AND 700 SIDE BY SIDE...
 
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I love the 400's looks and my first one was a 4 fin. For $300, you got a good deal for a clean amp
 
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