Nick Danger's Yamaha M80 Amplifier Repair/ Restoration

[Nick Danger]

Soooooo, I have one of these:

..and I came across this:

Bad, bad, bad glue!!!! Even though the amp is working at present, this looks like a problem waiting to happen. Figured I would document my repairs here for other folks that may have to do the same down the road. This will also make it easier for those of you that are kind enough to help me with this repair while I cry on and on about the "thingie on the whatchmacallit" and who has a spare bit lyin' about.

Here are a couple of links that show extensive work and mods done to this same model:

AK Yamaha DSBG Thread

Hope the OP at AK replies to my PM as he lives one town over from me.........sounds like he knows his way around these.

Jer's M80 Build


Here are some of the parts I may need to procure for this project:

C111, C112 | 220uf/6.3V | - I use Nichicon KZ's if possible, Any quality audio grade cap OK.
C162, C163 | 1000uf/100V | - I use Nichicon KW, KG, or FW, hard to find. (1-17-11) Digikey has FW in stock
D119, D120 | RD3.0EB2 3.01-3.22 20mA .5W | - use any .5W 20mA 3V DO-35 Zener (1N5225B)
R125, 126 | 390 Ohm .25W Carbon Film Flameproof (per schematic)
R137, 138 | 1K Ohm .25W Carbon Film Flameproof
R233, 234 | 430/470 Ohm .25W Carbon Film Flameproof (measure as the schem differs on these)
R123/229/231 - R124/230/232 | 330K Ohm Carbon Film
Often R226 | 2W 3.9K Metal Oxide Film | Mouser part link These are flame resistant.
Often C123, 124 | 39pf 500V mica cap | WIMA, Panasonic or any quality polypro or pps film cap
Usually have to remove and clean the busbars and TR113, 114, 123, 124 and replace a whole grip of jumpers.

Just an edit for the M-80:
R123/229/231 - R124/230/232 | 330 Ohm Carbon Film are 330k ohm
R125, 126 | 390 Ohm .25W Carbon Film Flameproof are 330 ohm.
(info lift from brutal's thread at AK- cheers)

Any other thoughts, input, suggestions are appreciated. More to come in the near- future as I really want to get her in the system sooner than later.

 

[orange]

If you hadn't said that it worked I would have assumed the can puked.

 

[NavLinear]

Douglas,

What shape are the big ass caps in? Those seemed to be difficult to find a replacement for after reading Jer's thread. Hopefully they still have some life in them.

It's good that someone that's dug into these is close by - if nothing else they could be a good sounding board.

 

[laatsch55]

I don't think Doug's the " nad's type"..... I'd do it though if it was mine...

 

[Nick Danger]

If you hadn't said that it worked I would have assumed the can puked.

That is the glue which wants to eat eveything it comes in contact with. It was used to hold caps in place for wave soldering.

Question for you techs/ DIYers: Is it really necessay to use glue on caps when I replace them? Seems a shame to goop up my nice, clean boards.

I am working on getting schematics for the amp, don't suppose anybody has access to them?

 

[Nick Danger]

Douglas,

What shape are the big ass caps in? Those seemed to be difficult to find a replacement for after reading Jer's thread. Hopefully they still have some life in them.

It's good that someone that's dug into these is close by - if nothing else they could be a good sounding board.

Not sure yet about the condition of the "oil cans" but I will get a good look and some pics for you in the next few days. Here is when a "modification" or two may need to come into play. Sure would be nice to come across a stash of these big boys. I imagine I will try the folks at LegendaryAmps before I did anything too drastic.

 

[Gepetto]

That is the glue which wants to eat eveything it comes in contact with. It was used to hold caps in place for wave soldering.

Question for you techs/ DIYers: Is it really necessay to use glue on caps when I replace them? Seems a shame to goop up my nice, clean boards.

I am working on getting schematics for the amp, don't suppose anybody has access to them?

No, they put the glue on the caps to ensure they withstand shock and vibe from shipping. If you are not planning on shipping it, there is no other technical reason for the glue. Yamaha has corporate standards for shock and vibe endurance of their equipment. The amp would not pass without being glued to the board.

 

[Nick Danger]

No, they put the glue on the caps to ensure they withstand shock and vibe from shipping. If you are not planning on shipping it, there is no other technical reason for the glue. Yamaha has corporate standards for shock and vibe endurance of their equipment. The amp would not pass without being glued to the board.

Thank you, sir! Hoping to keep this one around for a while and don't see it being shipped any time soon. We'll see how I feel once I have the board cleaned and ready for new components to be installed.

 

[laatsch55]

I've shipped a few amps, not a loose cap yet....

 

[Nick Danger]

We begin....

I would like to have my amp up and running by the end of October 2014, so I figured I had better start now. Off comes the bottom cover:

Next, off with the top cover:

Here is where the problem is- lots of corrosive adhesive all over main board and components. The goal is to remove glue and affected parts, clean and repair.

TIme to cut the 5 or 6 wire ties for better access:

Now the fun begins. In order to get some decent access to the the board to be repaired, I removed the heatsinks by unsoldering all the transistor connections that attached boards to said sinks. Next, I removed 6 bolts that hold the actual heatsinks in place and, boom- we have a little elbow room to work and clean.

 

[Fast Forward]

I had Harley Man in Bloomington re-build mine a few years ago he did some nice work it's been Flawless ever since

 

[orange]

Is that big thing on top looking like a VHS cassette a DARLINGTON?

When I had a half dead M-80 and a C-60 with issues in here (I was given them to sell for myself and raise money) the one thing that always got to me was that for such a powerful and impressive amp the case and bottom looked rather cheap. It's like the lights on the front panel were as far as the design team could get. They could have skipped that and made it look nicer.

 

[avionic]

Soooooo, I have one of these:

..and I came across this:

Bad, bad, bad glue!!!! Even though the amp is working at present, this looks like a problem waiting to happen. Figured I would document my repairs here for other folks that may have to do the same down the road. This will also make it easier for those of you that are kind enough to help me with this repair while I cry on and on about the "thingie on the whatchmacallit" and who has a spare bit lyin' about.

Here are a couple of links that show extensive work and mods done to this same model:

AK Yamaha DSBG Thread

Hope the OP at AK replies to my PM as he lives one town over from me.........sounds like he knows his way around these.

Jer's M80 Build


Here are some of the parts I may need to procure for this project:

C111, C112 | 220uf/6.3V | - I use Nichicon KZ's if possible, Any quality audio grade cap OK.
C162, C163 | 1000uf/100V | - I use Nichicon KW, KG, or FW, hard to find. (1-17-11) Digikey has FW in stock
D119, D120 | RD3.0EB2 3.01-3.22 20mA .5W | - use any .5W 20mA 3V DO-35 Zener (1N5225B)
R125, 126 | 390 Ohm .25W Carbon Film Flameproof (per schematic)
R137, 138 | 1K Ohm .25W Carbon Film Flameproof
R233, 234 | 430/470 Ohm .25W Carbon Film Flameproof (measure as the schem differs on these)
R123/229/231 - R124/230/232 | 330K Ohm Carbon Film
Often R226 | 2W 3.9K Metal Oxide Film | Mouser part link These are flame resistant.
Often C123, 124 | 39pf 500V mica cap | WIMA, Panasonic or any quality polypro or pps film cap
Usually have to remove and clean the busbars and TR113, 114, 123, 124 and replace a whole grip of jumpers.

Just an edit for the M-80:
R123/229/231 - R124/230/232 | 330 Ohm Carbon Film are 330k ohm
R125, 126 | 390 Ohm .25W Carbon Film Flameproof are 330 ohm.
(info lift from brutal's thread at AK- cheers)

Any other thoughts, input, suggestions are appreciated. More to come in the near- future as I really want to get her in the system sooner than later.

So is this amp in working or non-working status? I have one here thats going to get 99.9% of all the components on the main board replaced due to heavy corrosion on just about every component. C162 and C163 are going to get a pair of Mundorf M-Lytics 1000µf/100v. All the old blackgates will get replaced with Blackgates from my private stock.

 

[brutal]

Soooooo, I have one of these:

..and I came across this:

Bad, bad, bad glue!!!! Even though the amp is working at present, this looks like a problem waiting to happen. Figured I would document my repairs here for other folks that may have to do the same down the road. This will also make it easier for those of you that are kind enough to help me with this repair while I cry on and on about the "thingie on the whatchmacallit" and who has a spare bit lyin' about.

Here are a couple of links that show extensive work and mods done to this same model:

AK Yamaha DSBG Thread

Hope the OP at AK replies to my PM as he lives one town over from me.........sounds like he knows his way around these.

I may have worked on a few. Avionic is the real master and should be your goto guy for Yamaha, not that tool that spawned the faux legendary "Legendary Amps."

Jer's M80 Build

I only made it through the first 5 pages (before user settings changed) before that frankenbuild/thread started to hurt my brain and sensibilities.

Here are some of the parts I may need to procure for this project:

C111, C112 | 220uf/6.3V | - I use Nichicon KZ's if possible, Any quality audio grade cap OK.
C162, C163 | 1000uf/100V | - I use Nichicon KW, KG, or FW, hard to find. (1-17-11) Digikey has FW in stock
D119, D120 | RD3.0EB2 3.01-3.22 20mA .5W | - use any .5W 20mA 3V DO-35 Zener (1N5225B)
R125, 126 | 390 Ohm .25W Carbon Film Flameproof (per schematic)
R137, 138 | 1K Ohm .25W Carbon Film Flameproof
R233, 234 | 430/470 Ohm .25W Carbon Film Flameproof (measure as the schem differs on these)
R123/229/231 - R124/230/232 | 330K Ohm Carbon Film
Often R226 | 2W 3.9K Metal Oxide Film | Mouser part link These are flame resistant.
Often C123, 124 | 39pf 500V mica cap | WIMA, Panasonic or any quality polypro or pps film cap
Usually have to remove and clean the busbars and TR113, 114, 123, 124 and replace a whole grip of jumpers.

Just an edit for the M-80:
R123/229/231 - R124/230/232 | 330 Ohm Carbon Film are 330k ohm
R125, 126 | 390 Ohm .25W Carbon Film Flameproof are 330 ohm.
(info lift from brutal's thread at AK- cheers)

Any other thoughts, input, suggestions are appreciated. More to come in the near- future as I really want to get her in the system sooner than later.

Curiously, some info was white-out.

 

[brutal]

That is the glue which wants to eat eveything it comes in contact with. It was used to hold caps in place for wave soldering.

Question for you techs/ DIYers: Is it really necessay to use glue on caps when I replace them? Seems a shame to goop up my nice, clean boards.

I am working on getting schematics for the amp, don't suppose anybody has access to them?

Did you find these at the Yamaha forum "Yamaha Literature" sticky link (or links inside the sticky) over at AK?

 

[brutal]

Not sure yet about the condition of the "oil cans" but I will get a good look and some pics for you in the next few days. Here is when a "modification" or two may need to come into play. Sure would be nice to come across a stash of these big boys. I imagine I will try the folks at LegendaryAmps before I did anything too drastic.

IMHO, avoid that guy like the plague. He didn't even address the DSBG issue that we have discussed and remediated for years until questioned about it through e-bay. He was happy to sell many Yamaha amps without ever repairing the DSBG. Just throw on some binding posts, clean it up, cover up the transformers with black vinyl and call it a rebuild. I seriously doubt he's doing a full recap or replacing the filter caps. READ this and tell me what you see. $400 to clean it and put on binding posts! $26 PER PART for repairs. I should quit IT consulting and scrub M-80's.

Gotta give him credit for building an empire based solely on the legend in his mind.

Not disparaging the amps as I'm a HUGE Yamaha fan, but besting the best from McIntosh and Carver? I mean, c'mon guys.

FWIW, The M-80 is a fine amp and worthy of a build, and I ran a couple for YEARS and was very happy with them, but give me a PC2002M any day of the week.

 

[brutal]

No, they put the glue on the caps to ensure they withstand shock and vibe from shipping. If you are not planning on shipping it, there is no other technical reason for the glue. Yamaha has corporate standards for shock and vibe endurance of their equipment. The amp would not pass without being glued to the board.

That's simply not true. They used Sony Bond as much to hold components on for wave soldiering as anything else, including shipping.

 

[brutal]

I've shipped a few amps, not a loose cap yet....

I tend to mostly agree. However, any component that can place stress on a solder junction should be properly secured. I have re-glued some medium to large size caps that I felt were not secure enough to withstand a UPS drop test. I use black RTV-gasket maker. You can see in any of my feedback on AK re: shipping that stuff is packed to survive a nuclear holocaust and I still prefer to use glue on select parts.

 

[brutal]

P.S.

Anyone needing Yamaha repairs should talk to Avionic. He is one of, if not the best.

 

[laatsch55]

That's simply not true. They used Sony Bond as much to hold components on for wave soldiering as anything else, including shipping.

Then if not wave soldering replacement components is there still a reason if he doewsn't plan on shipping?